Diamond Car Insurance

Posted on 2002/02/25 13:04:33 (February 2002) by john.

Now this really gets my goat...


Anyone who's been on the tube, and, like me, usually forgets to take anything to read, will usually end up staring at the adverts. In my case, not such a great plan. There's one particular advert, for "Diamond Car Insurance", that really winds me up. The basic idea is that it's a company that only insures women, and offers them far cheaper car insurance than men have to pay. This opens up a whole can of worms of discrimination issues for me. I've included a picture of the offending article - it's a little blurry but you should just about be able to make out the text.

Before I attack this, it is important to point out that I am in no way a chauvinist (although my comments will probably be misinterpreted by some as chauvinism) or an anything else "ist" - I utterly believe in equal opportunities for absolutely everyone, without exception. In fact, that is the root of my argument. Firstly, there's the statement on the advert "Apparently, Diamond save money for women because they're better drivers." What do they actually mean by better drivers? This can not be presented as a straight fact without either putting it into a specific context, or backing it up with statistics. If they had said "in an independant driving test taken by 1000 women and 1000 men the women, on average, performed better", that would be fine. Or, for example "women statistically have fewer accidents" would be fine too (provided it is true of course) or "annually women in the UK claim less from insurance companies", would be even better - particularly as it highlights a lot more plainly the root these companies' reasoning. Do they think the "women are better drivers" is OK because it is in part guarded by an "Apparently"? It still seems to me that they are presenting this as a straight fact. Without any qualification, it is purely an opinion, and needs to be identified as such. Where are the advertising standards agency on this one?

At my graduation ceremony, the vice-chancellor was giving a speech about some of the work done by the university over the past year or two. Amongst other things he was talking about how the psychology department had been conducting experiments on how the male and female brains reacted when exposed to stressful situations, particularly those encountered whilst driving. The researchers (and may I point out it was a mixed team of professional and open minded men and women) concluded that the male brain was naturally slightly better at coping with these situations given certain circumstances. This proven scientific fact was received by booing from the female members of the audience in the ceremony. Yet we tolerate Diamond's advert with its completely unjustified, unqualified and unproven statement that women are better drivers. Not only does this demonstrate how unprofessional Diamond are being, but also the double standards. Given the booing received by a very prominant member of my university upon presenting simple scientific fact, it is easy to guess the kind of reception that an analagous advert claiming men to be better drivers would receive from women.


Next, there's the taunting of men in the advert. The one pictured is just one example from a series. Most of them tend to depict men attempting to dress up as women in order to get cheaper car insurance. This is really waving the injustice of insurance discrimination in the face and deliberately trying to offend men with it. What kind of advertising is this? Isn't this also offending transvestites? Making a mockery of something that is extremely natural to some people. Would this kind of blatant taunting be tolerated if it was directed at women, or ethnic minorities? Of course it wouldn't be (and neither should it be). It feels to me like the company is trying to be deliberately devisive, in an attempt to separate women from men further, presumably because this will make women more likely to buy things from companies ran exclusively for women, like, oh, Diamond. These stupid, selfish people are trying to take society in exactly the opposite way to how it should be going. Shouldn't we be trying to integrate and harmonise social groupings together, rather than attempting to pull them further apart? We're all human beings, after all.

Overall, my problem with Diamond is possibly a broader one - prejudice in insurance and the fact that it seems totally tolerated by most people, purely because it is (allegedly) backed up by some statistics. Myself, as an individual young male, I might actually be the safest driver in the world, but simply because I share physical characteristics with people otherwise completely unconnected to me, that have in the past had more accidents, I am deemed unsafe. Why should I have to pay for mistakes of other people? Why should I be disadvantaged for the actions of others? If someone produced statistics that shorter people had more accidents than taller people, would society accept charging shorter people more for their car insurance? Of course not. If there were statistics saying Africans were less reliable at paying off debts than Europeans, would we as a society allow banks to automatically refuse people from Africa mortgages? Of course not (well certainly I wouldn't anyway). Would we refuse renting a house to a German because they're more likely to start a war with us (and statistically, looking back over history, they are)?
This is obviously both ludicrous and totally wrong. In America, there is a higher proportion of black people than white people in prison (which is almost certainly an injustice in itself). Does this mean upon meeting an individual black person we should consider them more likely to be a criminal? No, no, no, and no. All of this just goes to show how rediculous (and in my opinion immoral) it is trying to justify anything with statistics.

Everyone has to be seen as an individual, and this has to apply universally - it simply is not acceptable to make exceptions. We should all be equal. There should be absolutely no assumptions made about me as an individual, or anyone else, based on purely physical characteristics.

I have to agree. I am well aware of Diamond's evil ways. I have three points.



One. As an investor, I want a company that insures the whole range of drivers. Dangerous drivers keep the premium up for all and good drivers rarely ask for a return so are a good investment. In all, a well balanced company works well.



Two. These adverts very rarely state how the evidence was gathered. Statistics is the art of proving what you want to prove. How were the drivers selected, randomly or out of demographic groups? Given that there are 10 demographic groups (on average) and two sexes, that makes 20 different classes. 2000 data points on 20 different classes is not very much, about 100 per class. Given humans are a right difficult bunch, 100 points is poor on a stick. Given that there are 60 million people in this country, 2000 sample size is only 0.00003% of uk drivers. Not very good is it? 2000 sounds like a lot, but when it comes to people, 2000 is nothing.



Three. John, you don't own a car, can you drive one? This shows your extreme sensitivity to sexism.



Good posting, though, made me laugh. Especially the bit about renting out to Germans.

Posted by Rob Lang at 2002/03/05 17:16:39.

This is all very well John, and I agree it is sexist although I do think that women statistically have fewer accidents than men. However, insurance is full of 'isms': sexism is one, where-you-live-ism is another, but the biggest is ageism. Now that I'm (ahem) nearly 30 (shuddup Rob) my premiums are really quite low indeed. But I'm a no better driver than I was a year ago. In fact, I'm probably worse having spent much of the last year charging around off road for work. Some poor 19 year old, male or female, has a nightmare in comparison, wth enormous premiums for the diddiest of cars. At the other end of the scale you have our beloved grandmother, god rest her soul, who drove everywhere in first gear and had a tendency to leave her glasses at home. She had a premium of about 25p. So there's no justice in insurance. Live with it. In any case, I bet if you got some female friends to actually get quotes from Diamond they wouldn't be any different anyway. After deacdes of car advertising aimed purely at men I think its quite refreshing to have the Jimmy Choo on the other foot.

Posted by Alex at 2002/03/18 16:16:05.

I'm afraid I will have to agree with Alex on this one, Jonny boy. As a woman, I honestly believe that being able to get a lower priced insurance compared to a man of my age and driving experience is a form of discrimination. But even though I am a woman, being only 22 and having had my license for 4 years, the amount I will have to pay for car insurance is tons more than what older people have to pay. I think this stems from the belief that the older the person, the more experienced driver he/she is.
However, experience is not necessarily connected with age. For example, a 35-year old person who hasn't touched a car since he/she got their license is nowhere near as experienced as a 25-year old who has to drive to work everyday, but whose insurance premium is sky-high because of his/her young age. I don't know about other people, but to me that is not fair and is yet another form of discrimination. And yet, there is nothing we can do to prevent it.
However, given all the above, in the year 2000, the UK population consisted of 29 107 000 men and 29 963 000 women (800 000 more), of which 23 867 740 men and 17 977 800 women held full driving licenses respectively. Now, if you consider the fact that the number of car accidents were 203 340 caused by men and 107 583 caused by women, then by doing some simple maths, the percentage of men who have caused accidents is 0.85% compared to 0.59% for women. So, basically, statistically from data concerning the entire of the UK (so Rob won't complain about not being enough etc etc) women are indeed better drivers than men. . . Live with it!
(statistics from the DTLR page: http://www.transtat.dtlr.gov.uk/tables/2001/ragb/pdf/ragb01_2.pdf page 45. Population statistics: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/).

By the way, Phil also says that insurance companies are there to make money and if that means charging accident-prone drivers more, then so be it. . . Also, Diamond insurance lasts 10 months, rather than 12. So, less money for less time!

Posted by Nicoletta at 2002/04/22 24:33:26.

I'm afraid you statistics are a bit off, Nic.

How many car journeys were made by men and women last year?

I can guarentee that there were more miles driven by men than women, therefore there was more opportunity for men to crash. How many women Lorry drivers do you know?

How do I know this? Even the DTLR are a bit cagey about their Stats: they do not offer semantics, just the numbers. Stats can be interpreted however the reader suggests. You're a woman, you'll interpret them from a biased viewpoint, I would do the same.
However, Stats are Stats, purely numbers and unless the process itself is unbiased (such as a purely mathematical one) you can not gauge enough information from them because they never tell the whole story. Why not? Well, how much information do you need to collect to have full understanding, especially when people are concerned?

You've gone off the point, Nic, in a vain attempt to write something interesting. Sexual discrimination is the point here, not who is a better driver. If you want to stick up for women in the future, Nic, it's best to have a rock-solid argument and be on the side of the women, otherwise, don't bother.

Posted by Rob Lang at 2002/04/23 10:49:46.

Are you some kind of pleb Rob? First you talk about being an investor in
insurance, then you say I have gone off the point because we should be
talking about sexual discrimination, something you didn't mention at
all. Make up your mind, lad.

As for having a rock-solid argument and being on the side of the women
or not bothering, if you had bothered to read what I wrote, you would
have seen that in sentence one I point out that I feel this is
discrimination. It isn't about taking the side of male or female, it's
about whether we feel it is right to discriminate at all. It is however
just an interesting aside that the stats seem favourable to women, if
you want to read something else into them fine, then it's a free country
. . .

At the end of the day, stats or no stats, discrimination is rife in this
day and age, and in some cases we just have to live with it. There is
such a thing as being too PC about it all. Where we draw the line
however is a matter for plentiful debate.

As an aside, have you considered that this may just be a marketing ploy
anyway? With Diamond's 'cheap insurance for women' only lasting 10
instead of 12 months, it may sound good, but probably doesn't work out
much better in the long run.

Well Rob, there is my 'vain attempt to write something interesting',
maybe you should try it sometime?

Posted by Nicoletta at 2002/05/14 10:15:05.

John you have hit the nail so many times in this one report....thank god someone is out there that can sum up how all us non-female people feel at the disadvantage of being cheated at the hands of these insurance twats!! I don't even care about the statistics. You cannot stereotype people in this day and age. I have no points and full no calims, never had a smash. Yet a woman who may have had a claim in the past would get better insurance than me? I am going to complain about this issue to everybody in power who can do something about it, and i won't stop until we we all get treated as individuals and as John said " why should we have to pay for the mistake of others'. Everybody should send as many e-mails and letters they can to complain about this injustice. DO NOT STOP!!!!

Posted by phil at 2003/01/21 19:52:41.

Women should not be allowed to drive, let alone be insured

Posted by neil kelly at 2003/01/22 17:01:13.

i cant drive yet, and im thinkin about not even botherin to get a licsence cuz its to fuckin expensive for young male drivers at an insurance standpoint, well hats it

Posted by Jrock at 2003/10/31 15:51:11.

If you want to have your voice heard on this matter call 0800 36 24 36 or visit www.diamond.co.uk. According to the latest diamond ad women deserve to pay less

Posted by sam at 2004/08/27 19:03:22.

I would like to know how women feel about diamond. When an advert comes on the screen what do they think. As for on the undergroud it is a right nuisance. You go on there and then find yourself reading about how women are better drivers and how they deserve to pay less. What do women think when they see this on the underground. I must also admit that even though it annoys me facts are facts and women are better drivers but do they have to wind up men in this way.

Posted by Martin at 2004/10/02 19:54:58.

It's good to see you wound up Martin. As a member of diamond I think they are great because i pay less for being a woman! The fact that they annoy men is irrelevant despite it being really funny watching my husband get wound up whenever an advert comes up

Posted by Holly at 2004/10/13 18:19:18.

Women are definately better drivers than men. Our claims cost less and we crash less often. Why can't men admit that we girls have beaten you in the driving department. Last year 98% of all convicted dangeroud drivers were men. So i think it is official women really are better drivers than men!!!

Posted by bekka at 2004/12/14 20:36:39.

thats not fair
being born a woman automatically gives cheaper car insurance?

seems that this company have categorized men and women

its just as bad as saying
white should people should get cheaper insurance

i think a big equality line has been crossed here

Posted by Steve at 2005/03/22 12:34:56.

Why can't men accept that women are better drivers? I think that women should pay less for being better at DRIVING. Also if you are so upset that diamond is created just for women why don't you create a company just for men?

Posted by Holly at 2005/03/30 13:17:10.

The diamond advert that gives me the problem was the one with Sarah cawood saying how women are better drivers. Sarah cawood gets to wind up men by advertising for diamond just because she is a woman. As i learn from my wife it's great for women but bad for men. The biggest act of sexism against men ever.

Posted by Paul at 2005/05/11 22:15:23.

My first thought upon seeing this ad. "What would happen if I were to start a business offering cheaper car insurance for men only?" Feminists would raise hell, thats what!

I'm sorry but I'm all about equality, I agree with all the points agains chauvinism and I understand fully how badly women have been treated in the past and in some cases still are. But we're making progress towards equality and I'd rather not see something like diamond car insurance swing the balance in the other direction, I can't think of anything more hypocritical.

Statistics or not, we are all indeviduals regardless of gender.

Posted by Gary at 2005/05/27 13:47:30.

Finally! Gary, you hit this topic on the head and it was about time that someone did too!
Well, thats probably because I agree with everything you say.

Maybe we should make a 'men only' insurance with the same rates as diamond. Compare the claims of the two companies, then, let the 'winner' make loads of annoying, offensive ads to the other sex (if you think somethings wrong with that, just look at the picture up there!).

I dont drive, yet. But I'm afriad when I do, that, insurers will give me a bad price, or, not insure me at all! Ok, I dont know how these companys "do their thing", but I know, as an 18 year old male, (I'll be 19 or 20 when I get my license) I'll be given a "boy racer" tag and thrown in the "no-hoper" category. I'll have have to prove I can drive responsibly until I'm 26 or something. That, or become asexual!

But, companys and (most importantly, in this case) adverts that do this "It's OK because it's just against men" have to stop. It really laughs in mens faces, I hate it!

Posted by Adam at 2005/06/26 11:59:54.

Any one who gets a lift from my mum will see just how agressive women drivers can be. We are all only human every one gets angry not just men.

Posted by Gavin at 2005/07/24 23:20:19.

Agree with the original argument. Was just talking about this with my father. The fundamental problem that i have is that using any kind of stereotype to discriminate in business is not acceptable. I understand that the insurance business thrives on statistics, but they take advantage of the fact that anti-male discrimination is still acceptable. I think that some women believe they have a right to positive discrimination as a result of historical imbalances, but positive discrimination towards women is sexism in my opinion. Quotas for women in parliament, targets for women in business, this whole modern concept of positive discrimination is wrong.

Consider for a moment a hypothetical statistic that black people are more likely to have accidents. I have no idea if this is true but it is irrelevant. If someone was to start a company offering white people cheaper insurance it would provoke a massive outrage. Same goes if someone started a men-only insurance company, it would not survive public opinion. Racism is rightfully socially unacceptable now, and chauvanism is becoming unacceptable. Maybe in a few years we will move beyond these anti-male times.

The problem is, in order to make the system fair and morally acceptable, insurance companies must be forced to ignore statistics and treat customers as individuals. This will not happen anytime soon and no one in government is willing to appear chauvanist.

As a side note, i have never seen solid arguments that women are better drivers, only biased statistics that are grounded in the fact that women drive FAR less than men and as a result have FAR less accidents. If i do see scientific arguments than i will concede that on average they are better, but i believe in treating people as individuals so this whole debate is thoroughly futile.

Posted by Cyrus at 2005/08/01 20:59:45.

I completely agree with this argument. I do not drive yet as I am only sixteen, but I found the sheer audacity of Diamond's advert insulting. Instead of bringing all of the various parts of society together, it seems to me that companies such as this wish to break what people have spent years building, for shear profit, it sickens me. Women have been campaigning for years for equality and fair treatment (something I am completely supportive of) but it seems that now some women feel that they are deserving of more than equality, which is complete hipocrisy. It appears that women can say whatever they want and get away with it, as they were opressed for so long, where as men will be persecuted for speaking their minds if it appears in any way sexist.
I do not see where the conflict arises, men and women are different clearly, but does that means one group is better than the other? I fell that society should be treating everyone as individuals not segregating them and regarding them differently due to their appearance, sex or race.

Posted by Ross at 2005/08/05 18:23:20.

I completely agree with this argument. I do not drive yet as I am only sixteen, but I found the sheer audacity of Diamond's advert insulting. Instead of bringing all of the various parts of society together, it seems to me that companies such as this wish to break what people have spent years building, for shear profit, it sickens me. Women have been campaigning for years for equality and fair treatment (something I am completely supportive of) but it seems that now some women feel that they are deserving of more than equality, which is complete hipocrisy. It appears that women can say whatever they want and get away with it, as they were opressed for so long, where as men will be persecuted for speaking their minds if it appears in any way sexist.
I do not see where the conflict arises, men and women are different clearly, but does that means one group is better than the other? I fell that society should be treating everyone as individuals not segregating them and regarding them differently due to their appearance, sex or race.

Posted by Ross at 2005/08/05 18:24:09.

i would just like to say that Diamond car insurance does sound sexist even if women a better drivers the reasons why men may not be good acording to the rumours may be men like a bit of a challenge sometimes but this is not my point.
My point as ross has pointed out is how it severs relations between men and women sometimes when people have small accidents it is not worth pointing it out
Men are also good drivers aswell take Top gear for insurance it shows the tv presenter driving and talking this goes against stereotyping becasue when i attended school the teacher always kept saying men cant do two things at once

Posted by lynn at 2005/08/12 14:18:15.

Cars are a hazard to the enviroment, i think it would be better if we found a cleaner and safer form of transport. This way diamond will go out of business and men and women can go to war on another trivial issue.

P.S. legalise marijuana

Posted by Gavin at 2005/08/13 16:51:23.

Cars are filthy dirty death traps that are destroying the enviroment, this whole debate could be resolved by developing a cleaner safer form of transport. Diamond would go out of business and men and women could go to war on another trivial(if annoying) issue.

Posted by Gavin at 2005/08/13 16:55:45.

I am a woman, admittedly I can't drive yet (even though I'm 20 ::blush::) and I find Diamond terribly sexist. On principle I think "insurance for [insert social group here]" is simply a bad idea regardless of statistics.

Posted by Grace at 2005/08/19 24:25:23.

I'll say it again that facts do not lie. I have many friends who are men and many who are women. We are all under 30 and all my female friends are better drivers than the men. Diamond are great if you are a girl like me but men should just ignore and forget it. All you are doing is giving me great pleasure because i don't care about being a better driver than a man but you boys have to be better than us girls- and you are not!!! I think it's true about there only being one way to be a good driver - Be born a woman!!

Posted by Holly at 2005/08/24 19:05:35.

I believe that this is complete sexism, I also believe that racism is just as bad as sexism. Can you imagine the uproar if I set up a insurance company saying, White people statistically have less car crashes than black people, therefore we are only allowing white people to use our company. Quite rightly there would be a backlash of complaints and righly so, so why is it Diamond are allowed to do the same thing! Companies should not segregate people because of their sex! Something needs to be done about this, sexism isn't tolerated against women and it should not be tolerated agains men!

Posted by Terry at 2005/09/07 18:40:24.

Can i end this argument now. Women are better drivers than men. That is a fact. Ha to all men and long live diamond, the best car insurance company created JUST for BETTER WOMEN drivers.

Posted by Samantha at 2005/09/21 22:53:47.

Good For You, I Am Fed Up With Feminist's, I Am Not Chauvinistic, But I Disagree With Diamond Totally.

I Have A Story That May Interest You;

A While Ago Gillette Where Going To Be Sued As All There Products Where Male Based, The Outcome Of This Forced Them To Produce A Female Range.

I Have Nothing Against Feminism, As Long As It Is For Equallity, The Feminist's Want To Be Treated BETTER Than Men, Not Equal To.

A Feminist Said This To Me The Other Name:

"All Men Are The Same, They Refuse To TReat Women As Individuals"

Yeah, Cos Thats Not Hippocritical At All Is It!

Posted by Zero at 2005/09/29 13:42:32.

Why can't men accept that women are better drivers? ...

Because of this.....

THE age-old debate about who makes the best drivers was re-ignited yesterday when the country’s chief driving examiner, Robin Cummins, declared that men were superior behind the wheel. In a newspaper interview, Mr Cummins said men have more natural ability and control and need less teaching.

He told the Sunday Times that Driving Standards Agency pass rates showed women needed more time to pass their driving test, with a 40 per cent overall pass rate for women compared to 46 per cent for men.

Posted by Paul Smithy at 2005/10/05 23:38:20.

What do all you men think of Sheilas wheels, another car insurance company created just for women. If you search for women only insurance companies you will find that there are loads online but there are also now 2 main ones, Diamond and Sheilas wheels. This indicates the fact that insurers would rather insure women because women are better drivers than men. Just accept it!

Posted by Holly at 2005/10/13 18:16:01.

This irritates me greatly. Diamond car insurance irked me as soon as I saw it on TV. Like a lot of other people on this site have said, women campaigned for a long time for EQUAL RIGHTS. I don't class "Female only insurance" as sexual equality. I don't even care if women ARE better drivers, it's still sexism. Now sheila's wheels has showed up, it has just re-ignited the flame. More sexism. Let the "male's only" insurance group appear. Let's see how many women complain. Let's see how fast it gets completely removed from existance, then wonder why sexist companies like diamond and sheilas wheels are still going. Since there's been a few sexist comments here, I'd like to say this: Women are more careful, hmm? I guess you could call it that. However, I don't call driving down a 50 mph road at 30 mph, 'safe.' I call it stupid. That's how accidents are caused.

Posted by Mike at 2005/10/22 21:19:22.

It looks as though i have wound you up Mike!! I don't think any comments made by women here are sexist because facts speak for themselves and girls are better drivers than men. All you men know it's true but want to keep it hidden away because you are embarrased. Well i certainly let it known to all men i know particularly my husband that women are better drivers and i encourage all girls to do the same. I am proud to be a woman and proud to be part of the safer driver sex.

Posted by Holly at 2005/10/26 23:02:47.

Thats great Holly, but i think you are missing the point here. You women can debate all you like now and it means nothing because...

"The Country’s Chief Driving Examiner, Robin Cummins, declared that men were superior behind the wheel."

Now, this guy is the Chief Driving Examiner. The top bloke at the DSA, a Government created, endorsed, backed organisation that is in charge of driving test for the UK.

This is fact and all you women must now agree that...

a) Men are superior behind the wheel.

and

b) Insurance companies such as Diamond are clinging on to an age old statistic that women are better drivers than men.

What now needs to be done is to abolish women only insurance companies and start some men only insurance companies to set things right and to reflect the FACTS!.

Posted by Paul Smithy at 2005/10/30 18:48:01.

Paul,

The DSA guy's comments refer to the length of time it takes to pass a test, and is of no consequence when it comes to actually being out on the road unsupervised.

This fact makes no difference to the over-riding fact that men account for more than 95% of accidents on the roads (the figures have been quoted in the Sheilas' Wheels press things, and are from the Home Office).

Women might irritate men when they're driving, but have you ever considered that it's men's inability to stay calm behind the wheel that makes them more susceptible to irrational and therefore dangerous driving decisions?

The 'age old' statistics are based on the number of claims by women, and the costs of these claims. Maybe women do knock into things more often (i don't know), but statistically, the chances of them injuring another person or damging another vehicle or far less than that of a man. These stats are continually updated by insurance companies (otherwise their profits would go down the pan), and i think it's slightly more unfair for women to prop up the more expensive claims of men, than it is for men to suffer at their own hands.

And after all, the conecpt of what makes a good driver differs from person to person. The costs of a claim, however, are proportionate to all, and if ours cost less, we should pay less to protect ourselves.

Posted by tracy at 2005/10/31 09:40:08.

Paul, I have searched the internet and found that the following sites all have something in common. Diamond.co.uk, sheilaswheels.com, diva-car-insurance.com, ladiesinsurance.com, femalemotor.com, her-car-insurance.com, girlmotor.com, 1stforwomen.com and covergirlinsurance.com. 9 sites that all share the same views and do the same things. That is they do car insurance just for women because they know that women are better drivers than men. Take a look at them and you will see that they all have rock solid evidence that women are better drivers than men. They also all say that they were created so that women wouldn't have to subsidise higher risk drivers, for example, men! if you look for men only insurance companies there are none to be found. So why has a girl like me got the opportunity to choose out of 9 women only companies plus all the companies that insure both women and men but you, being a man, can only choose out of companies that insure both sexes? The answer is simple, because women are better drivers than men. All the facts are in the favour of women. Stuff what one man, who you quoted said, the fact is that women are better drivers than men and you simply cannot accept it. That is not my problem. Anyway now i am going to renew my policy with Diamond, or sheilas wheels, or should i choose cover girl. So many choices, so many LOW insurance quotes to get. Well i guess thats what comes with being a better driver, what sex am i again, oh yes, FEMALE!!!

Posted by Holly at 2005/10/31 18:58:22.

I visited some of the websites that Holly mentioned and she is correct. They all state that officially women are better drivers than men (especially her-car-insurance.co.uk!) Also, sheilas wheels offer the following statistics: Men are responsible for 97% of all dangerous driving convictions, 94% of all car accidents involving death or bodily harm, 89% of drink and drug driving convictions, 85% of all careless driving convictions, and 83% of all speeding convictions. This is why companies like diamond only insure women, because overall if you only insure women then you are insuring the safer sex. I know that some men are better than women and vice versa, but the problem for men at the moment is that there are more better women drivers than better men drivers

Posted by Samantha at 2005/11/03 18:56:48.

Actually the reason there are no male only car insurance companies is they would be sued to hell the instant they tried to set up the business, yet double standards allow Diamond and the like to continue existing.

Posted by Dave at 2005/11/03 19:16:03.

It is only women aged 17-25 that are much better drivers than men. Women of this age group save much more on car insurance than men. This is the type of women that diamond are aiming towards. After this age things even themselves up a bit, but women are still slightly better on the road. I read in the daily mail that it is all down to hormones. If this is true their is nothing that can be done so just live with it and forget it.

Posted by Bekka at 2005/11/08 20:02:27.

Bekka, I feel a compelling desire to inform you, that what you write is absolute trash! Your comments never cease to augment in stupidity! To rationally elucidate a countering diatribe predicated - for starters - on your implicit belief in ‘The Daily Mail’ would be both a waste of my time and an overestimation of your overtly miniscule capacity to either comprehend or understand - it would be tantamount to performing a card trick for a dog.

Posted by Mike at 2005/11/21 15:49:21.

Holly, it doesn’t surprise me one bit that you had to question ‘what sex’ you were, in the conclusion to what can only be described as the fanatical scribbling of a stupid woman desperate to masquerade her ‘supposed’ victory, as a leper would his bell, as it is precisely this physiological malady that has led to your inability to absorb the most obvious of information. To reiterate – in case you have forgotten, once again, what your original query was - yes you are correct - please try not to be too shocked, as I’m sure this maybe an unusual feeling for you to absorb - you are female, and yes, there are copious insurance agencies setup solely for women. However, Holly your insipid – and may I add pitifully predictable - prose have overlooked one small detail… insurance companies setup exclusively for woman are rarely – and I do mean rarely – any cheaper than companies who cater for both the sexes – but are in fact often far more expensive - as what such businesses play on is the unfamiliarity women feel vis-à-vis the postulation that they maybe considered the better drivers, as such an intervention immediately guarantees fiscal gain with regard to childish women like yourself who are unable to pear beyond the veil of Maya - to reveal that no company is there to make life easier for you, however much they may suggest otherwise. Moreover, good luck with Diamond… (just a tiny point for you to consider… their insurance only lasts 10 months, as opposed to the usual 12, which explains their slight - if any - reduction in cost) .

Holly in reading your short, juvenile, immature, self-indulgent and foolish post, I couldn’t help but muse over an aphorism on the subject of women by Nietzsche:

‘If you admit to a women that she is in the right, she cannot refrain from setting her heal triumphantly on the neck of the defeated – she has to enjoy victory to the full; while between men in such a case being in the right usually produces a feeling of embarrassment. As a consequence the man is accustomed to victory, while to the woman it comes as an exception’ (A.O.M 291)

Still Holly… as they say: ignorance is bliss… I’m sure you can vouch for that…

Posted by Reggy at 2005/11/21 16:36:34.

Yeah Fuck you Holly

Posted by Dave at 2005/11/22 09:38:47.

Holly I bet your husband really loves you. Honest

Posted by Dave at 2005/11/22 09:40:55.

From what I can see Holly, you are not a very nice person. Have you ever heard of men and women getting along with each other, like all normal people do? You are intent on causing an argument about a petty little subject like this. Quite rightly, a lot of people are very angry with horrible comments. We all have a quick joke about bad drivers, of whom can be anyone at all (No not just men), and then we forget about it. You are clearly a very sad person with not a lot going on in your life if this subject, which no one really cares about, bothers you so much.

Posted by David at 2005/11/24 17:55:10.

Has anyone noticed that the Sheilawheels ad, while purporting to have lady drivers' interests at heart, cannot help using bimbo models dressed in pink?

Chauvinist pigs at heart !
Watch out, girls !

Luv to all my sisters out there,

Joe (just a boy, tellin' it how it is)

Posted by Joe at 2005/11/29 09:00:31.

I recently took an English exam and we had to analyse adverts. The advert was a diamond one. What i am about to say shows that diamond is well out of order and completely sexist. The advert read 'Women! Cheaper car insurance. Diamond only do insurance for women because women are better drivers. So girls, call diamond now.' This is only part of the advert. The picture was of a women carrying a bag of shopping putting lipstick on. Like Reggy said, the girls in the class couldn't help themselves and had to annoy the boys as much as possible. My main point is that there is no evidence that women are better drivers. They just say it and that is ok? How long before the real truth comes out and they are stopped from printing abusive articles to men just because they are women?

Posted by Martin at 2005/12/01 19:09:17.

I was recently reading an article about how to save money on your car insurance. One way was gender. It said that by being a women you were considered a better driver so got a lower premium. It advised couples to insure a car under the womans name. The article was in exchange and mart online. Quite a good source i would think. Still, you men would probably still rather pay more than accept that you could pay less by insuring the car under a better woman drivers name. Stop abusing me boys and start accepting that women are simply better drivers than men!

Posted by Holly at 2006/01/20 18:49:45.

Ive been thinking the same since i first looked in to car insurance, its disgusting, theres no reason at all they can say im a worse driver then any random women just coz im a man. if it was the other way round and women had to pay more, there would be an uproar, it would be stopped and the companys doing it would be shut down or forced to change. How are they getting away with it?
Oh and holly i know i dnt know u but seriously if anyone even thought of making a company that refused insurance to women and charged you more. That man would be labelled sexist straight away and the company would never be made. It just couldnt happen

Posted by cn at 2006/01/26 22:40:42.

sorry Bekka, you're arguing that all women are better drivers then all men because of there hormones, now i know this sounds sexist as well, but i dnt know any women that would argue that alot of women and their hormones tend not to get on. especially at certain times. And car insurance companys such as diamond. dnt charge women more for one week of the month. And if this was about hormones that they certainly would. The reason they charge men more is because in today society its perfectly acceptable to be sexy against men. and by doing so they make more money. Simple as That.

Posted by cn at 2006/01/26 23:14:02.

It would appear that this discussion has degenerated into a battle of the sexes, with women saying "girls are better drivers; admit it as truth," and men saying "men are better drivers; admit it as truth," yet hard facts are not being offered.

Granted, there are some statistics offered, but I would have to ask what the source is, what time period they used, what the margin of error is, what the sample size was, etc.

Another point to consider, about these statistics, is that they are, at best, only for large groups (as a whole), rather than individuals. Perhaps young women are better drivers (statistically) than young men, but there are also crappy young women drivers and excellent drivers who are young men.

I could go on and on, but I think I have made my point.

Posted by Matt (an American) at 2006/03/10 06:40:20.

I am now completely satisfied with all of your arguments ladies. The fact is that I am now, not bothered that a) there are women only insurance companies and b) that there are so many claims that women are better drivers than men.

I have now completed several quotation tests including Lloyds, More Than, Royal Sun Alliance and many more. I will now share my results with you.

Getting quotes for like for like insurance... So same age, same car, same address, same length of time driving etc... I have found that my quotations for me as a male came out on average £170 cheaper than me as a female. AND THATS A FACT.

So to conclude this debate for me (I can't say for the rest of you), You can keep your women only insurance companis because 1) Insurance companies don;t even stick to their own rules and statistics (LOL) and 2) I don't give a flying s**t because I know that realistically, i can get cheaper insurance than a woman. (ROFL)

Lots of love to all you loosers.
Paul

P.S. Laughing my pants off now because after my research i know that these women only insurance companies are really ripping you women off whilst making you believe that you are getting a great deal LOL LOL LOL HA HA HA. Good luck ladies.

Posted by Paul at 2006/03/12 01:10:38.

Just to add insult to injury here... I now know 6 women that have been refused insurance by 2 well known women insurance companies. Now that is just the best laugh ever.

LOL ROFL PMSL HA HA HA HA.

Good luck you loosers!

Posted by Paul at 2006/03/12 01:15:32.

How starange that it is acceptable for a woman to jump up and down demanding rights however small or insignificant and as men we all have to bow down as we do when being told that it is racist apparently to utter a song, sentence or coffee product with the word "Black in it.
At work now, the former "manhole Covers" must now be described as "Access chamber covers" "manmade" is now "human crafted" BUT the moment I complain about this Insurance crap I am apparently suffering from " extreme sensitivity to sexism

Soory people, you cant kill your parents then complain that you are an orphan!!! if they want equality ...let them have it, unfortunatly THEY DO NOT!!! women want SUPERIORITY and that is a fact!!

Posted by Blaster stu at 2006/03/13 16:47:42.

The reason you were cheaper as a man than a women Paul, is because due to the fact that you are a man you made more claims than the average women and these claims cost more than for the average woman. When a man and woman are exactly the same a man may get a better deal, because it is a mixed sex insurance company. That is exactly why diamond was set up, because women were subsidising higher risk men drivers. You may be a very safe driver Paul, but on average women are safer and better drivers. I am pleased you got a cheaper quote for being you (a man) as opposed to being a woman. However, if i was the exact of you and went to diamond, they would give me a cheaper premium for being part of the safer sex. Also i bet that most girls are better at driving than you anyway!! I think that deep down it really annoys you that some car insurance companies only insure women, and they only do that because women are better drivers. If you require any stats backing this up i will give them to you!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/03/14 20:00:11.

ive got good news, The European social affairs commissioner Anna Diamantopoulou , whos a feminist in the government, is trying to ban insurance companys from being sexist. of course she isnt aiming it at car insurance because feminist wnt except sexism works both ways. but any way if the ban goes though then what sex you are will not matter when it comes to car insurance and it will final be based purely on how good of a driver you are. Which is the only fair and sensible way of doing it.

Posted by cn at 2006/03/21 24:52:12.

one more thing i forgot to say is, this argument seems to be going off track, car insurance is sexist, as it judges ur driving ability on ur sex, it doesnt matter whether men or women are the better drivers. because ur driving ability doesnt hav any thing to do with what sex u are. look at it this way if an insurance company said they had statistic saying one race is a on average better at driving then another, so they are going to start charging other ethnic groups more. That wud be racist. wouldnt it. and this is exactly the same as that. To judge some ones ability on what sex they are is sexist. so car insurance is at the moment seixst.

Posted by cn at 2006/03/21 13:04:42.

Any of you boys heard the sheilas wheels adverts. The line i like most is 'Women make the safest drivers!' If women are safer than they are better.

Posted by Holly at 2006/04/14 15:43:34.

Holly, Your arguments are pointless.

Listen, this is a test that everyone can do.... Do an insurance quote with diamond as a man... then with the exact details as a woman. I put paula as my female name....

My quote as a man came to £423.15 and as a woman it came out as exactly the same.

Do the test. Then stop debating about who is better / safer drivers because IT DOSE NOT MATTER ANYMORE!.

Posted by Paul at 2006/04/27 18:06:05.

I forgot to add......

Have you noticed in that Shielas Wheels Advert that the car is going backwards? I think there is a hidden message about women there....

Posted by Paul at 2006/04/27 18:07:40.

Thanks for telling me that Paul. Now i know that my car insurance actually costs less than yours! So now we can stop arguing because when it comes to me and you, who are having this argument, it looks that i am indeed a better driver than you!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/06 18:23:38.

I cant believe how much shit you are talking!. How the hell can you say you are paying cheaper car insurance than me when you don't know how old I am, where I live, what car I drive, how many years no claims bonus I have etc....etc....

You really do prove what men have always known about women and that is that you all talk a load of f**cing bollocks.

So yeah! you can stop arguing now cos none of us want to hear you talking complete and utter shite anymore.

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/08 12:35:19.

How can i say that i get cheaper car insurance than you? Simple, because women pay less than men because women are better drivers. As i am a woman who has never made a claim i must be cheaper than you, even if you have never made a claim, because i am a woman. Do you think that's unfair? How can it be, women are better drivers so pay less for insurance, what is wrong with that?

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/08 17:02:22.

Well you obviously have not donr the test mentioned in my earlier post. If you had, you would have found that the quote comes out the same with Diamond and less with others as a man.

I'll let you have the fact that women are perhaps 'safer' drivers than men (Not better!). The point i was making was that the insurance companies are lying when they say they reward women drivers for being 'safer' drivers (Again, not better).

Now get off that your high bullshit horse and stop talking bollocks.! As far as i am concerned, you are full of it and my point has been proven (which is why you are the only fool left arguing now)

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/08 18:57:20.

I can't see many men arguing either! Why can't you accept that women are officially better, yes better drivers than men. Visit diamond, sheilas wheels and covergirlinsurance.co.uk
They will provide you with the facts. Here's a couple: 97% of convicted dangerous drivers are men. Want some more?

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/08 21:09:55.

You really make me laugh. If women are 'better' like you say, why isn't womens insurance cheaper than mens?

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/10 13:59:33.

Shows how stupid you are. WOMEN'S INSURANCE IS CHEAPER THAN MEN'S. It is just that you can't accept it. It is a well known fact that women are better drivers, just live with it!
I think you are one of those men who just can't accept that women are better at doing something that men considered to be just for them 50 years ago. If all these insurance companies are only insuring women, then there must be some sense in it. They wouldn't do it if women were more expensive to insure. The only reason your insurance may be so cheap is because some poor woman is subsidising you. She should join a women only company like women on wheels, girl motor, diamond, sheilas wheels, cover girl or the many others on the internet. How many male only comoanies are there? Paul, just accept it when you are beaten. Women have won this battle, we are better drivers. FACT.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/10 17:35:30.

You really don't know what you are talking about do you? Why don't you try LISTENING to other people and stop being so blind to the REAL FACTS.

FACT: Diamond insure men.
FACT: Diamond quotes like for like are the same for men and women.
FACT: The majority of quotes at other insurance companies Like for like are cheaper for men.

So i'll ask you again... If women are 'better' like you say, why isn't womens insurance cheaper than mens?

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/10 17:59:26.

Posting the same thing 5 times. You are a clever man aren't you! Diamond do insure men but they only get a quote from admiral, you have to actually be a woman to get a special deal. Also, doing what you did is stupid, the reason women get better deals is because we are better drivers. Most women haven't got a record like most mens. Our driving records are better. A man and a woman with the same record will obviously get the same deal but most women have better driving records than men, which is why get better deals on car insurance.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/10 18:36:03.

The post was entered 5 times because there was a CGI error on this site, but hey, your a woman and I wouldn't expect you to understand what that is.

At the end of the day, your full of shit and you just can't accept that you may be better at driving but you cant' get cheaper car insurance.

I have had enough of arguing this point now, especially with a woman that can't accept the FACTS. Its like trying to convince someone that red is red when they thing red is blue. But anyway, if you are happy with your argument and are happy with being a looser by paying more or even the same premium as men then thats fine with me...

So have a happy life, and good luck with insuring your car. An if this post appears 5 or 6 times thats another CGI Error.

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/10 18:43:00.

Cheers, i will enjoy getting my cheaper car insurance for being a woman. I have never had to post 5 times but i guess that is because i am a woman, and i am just superior to you in most ways (especially insurance!!!!!) Just remember 97%of convicted dangerous drivers are men!
94% of accidents that involve death or bodily harm are the fault of men!
89% of drink/drug driving convictions are for men!
85% of careless driving convictions are for men!
83% of speeding convictions are for men!
THESE ARE THE FACTS!
You just can't face the truth. This is quite a collection for male drivers. I will think of you when i see a diamond or sheilas wheels advert as i know how much they annoy you. For ladies who insure their cars
sheilas wheels are superstars
women make the safest drivers
we could save a bunch of fivers
for bonzer car insurance deals
girls get onto sheilas wheels!!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/10 20:50:01.

I think Paul has a point Holly. I have now done the test myself so why cant you answer his question.

If 97%of convicted dangerous drivers are men!
94% of accidents that involve death or bodily harm are the fault of men!
89% of drink/drug driving convictions are for men!
85% of careless driving convictions are for men!
83% of speeding convictions are for men!...

Why is it that these womens only insurance companies are actually cheaper for men when you do like for like tests?

Posted by Tom at 2006/05/11 14:39:04.

Im not impressed to be honest. I have been refused insurance by Diamond and Sheilas Wheels and i dont have any convictions or anything.

ps, i keep getting that error too!

Posted by Linzi at 2006/05/11 16:36:48.

I did your test Paul with diamond and sheilas wheels. With diamond i pay 156.00 pounds and as a man i would pay 178.00 pounds.
With sheilas wheels i would pay less, at 150.00 pounds but as a man i would pay 184.00 pounds.
Looks like i really do save money just for being a woman!!! Just as well i am a woman otherwise i would be paying at least 22 pounds more!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/12 21:00:53.

just did this test, £162 as a woman and £126 as a man with diamond.

good news for us men!

Posted by mark at 2006/05/13 15:47:07.

Holly, im gonna let you have this one.

At the end of the day, im not bothered, I thought that women made their point about equal opportunities but I guess not! So you can have your cheap insurance. because its us men that pay for it anyway.

Those women that work don't get paid as much as a man does doing the same job... and those women that stay at home and look after the kids don't earn so its the husbands that pay for them anyway. So that saves us some money!

Also, being a feeble woman, I suppose us men need to let you have something to make you feel a bit important I guess.... you know, not being able to do the things that men do...

So now you have concinced me that all things between men and women are not equal, and that men are much better at most things than women.... Im gonna let you have your cheap car insurance argument. Because at the end of the day you are good at some things..... Driving, washing up, hoovering, polishing, making beds, cooking, cleaning, scrubbing toilets, typing and taking notes, looking mighty fine so us men have something nice to whack off over. Titties to squeeze... ass to slap and squeeze.... your the best at titties and stuff...

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK LADIES.

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/13 16:03:50.

WILL THE AUTHOR OF THIS BLEEDING WEBSITE SORT OUT THE REPEATED POSTS CAUSED BY CGI TIIME OUT ERRORS.

THANK YOU

Posted by MARTIN at 2006/05/13 16:05:27.

p

Posted by p at 2006/05/13 16:13:10.

Paul, thank you for admitting that women are indeed better drivers than men. It looks like even you couldn't ignore the statistics! All the tits stuff is fine, you can look at all those girls who match your needs!! (Your clearly lacking something in some aspect of your life if you have to look at topless girls all the time!!!!) All i wanted was for you to admit that women make better drivers than men, and you have so i am happy.
Also, may i add that after listening to some of the women who have come on here saying diamond hasn't been good for them, it would seem i really do get a great deal! What bothers me most is being cheaper than most of the men i know, and i am including you!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/16 17:54:44.

You are completley right of course....

My insurance is currently £5774. It is difficult for me to run my car because of the costs being so high, I really wish I was a woman, then I could get cheaper car insurance.

But then again, I would have to do dishes, hoovering, washing up, looking after kids, be a sex object, not have the potential to earn as muh in the workplace and be an inferior species to the male. But never mind aye!.

It must be a real pleasure for you to have cheap car insurance being a woman. I mean, as a woman, you dont have the same chance as an man does to make it in life so I am really please for you, and wish you the best with your car insurance.

Lots of Love

Paul.

P.S. I bet you are a hot little number... If you want me to come over and give your body a good going over, you let me know OK honey!. I bet you spread them like the best!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/16 19:04:13.

I hope that you realisse that before all this I believed in equal rights for women... Now I don't give a fuck. If you want to play it this way.. you can add me back into the list of sexist men.

So good luck in your quest for diversity cos you wont find if with your attitude!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/16 19:11:29.

Is someone feeling a little distressed? In this day and age women are actually taking over the jobs that men used to do. We are becoming more successful and rapidly catching men up in every way. Insurance is just one of these ways which has been highlighted. Finally, i have a husband who gives me everything i need, so i won't be requiring you to to sleep with me. Unlike you i am in a stable loving relationship and don't go around offering my body to any top, dick ot harry. Back to the main point, women are better drivers than men, you have admitted this so please keep to the point.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/16 19:32:10.

But Holly, that is the point.... equal rights and oportunities for men and women, which you, diamond and sheilas wheels and others a like are all ignoring.

But hey, it dont matter anymore because I dont agree with equal rights. I am glad that you have not made it in the world and that you need your man to provide for you. That just goes towards proving MY point.

Also i am sure that you would like to think that women are catching men up but you couldn't be further from the truth! It is only a select few number of women that can do a mans job. And that is only because they are butch ugly tomboy women that should be put down anyway!

So there you go... Keep living in your fantasy world.... Hope your man keeps up the good work in supporting you and providing for your every need. I just hope that you repay him like women should by keeping that body nice and fit to meet HIS needs, and by doing the housework, making sure there is a cooked meal on the table when he gets home, running his bath for him and by being a good obedient little woman.

Oh and just to let you know.... im not feeling a little distressed, I am finally pleased that I dont have to keep up the pretence that women should have equal rights.... cos I strongly believe that women should look after the home and kids whilst the men go out and earn the money! Which is exactly what my misses does. (Cheap insurance for me too as I pay for her insurance)

So like i said..... Am I bothered?

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/17 05:05:16.

Actually i have a job, i go out to work and my husband and i share our responsibilities equally. That is the way things are done in the real world. I pay for my own cheap car insurance. I can afford everything that i need myself and could live quite easily on my own. If you think that the role of women hasn't changed since 1900 then you don't get out much from that cave of yours do you!
Interesting to see you have wavered off the point that this is about, should diamond be allowed to advertise like this? Looks like you have lost the argument so are moving on to other subjects!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/17 15:36:05.

I remember seeing the advert that Sarah Cawood did for diamond a few years ago. She knocked on the screen and said "Women are better drivers, sorry boys, it's just a fact." Then she went on about how diamond was different to other insurance companies and seemed to take great pleasure out of saying "Diamond is created JUST for women." The advert actually really wound me up because i see no evidence about how women are better drivers than men.
I have seen a few other diamond adverts like one with 3 women sitting around a table disscussing insurance arguing about who has the best insurance. One says "My company is created just for women" before they all delightfully say "You're not with DIAMOND" and then start giggling.
My point is that diamond seems more intent on taking the piss out of men and making then feel really small and women feel great.
For example, my gitlfriend knows how much diamond annoys me so keeps any leaflets which come out of her magazines. I think companies like diamond are created to try and prove that women are now standing on their own feet. It is nothing to do with insurance, just a great opportunity to annoy men, and it seems that many women love to take that chance.

Posted by Martin at 2006/05/17 17:31:03.

But Holly, that is the point..... (tut tut) It seems that its you that keeps changing your point view. First your husband pays for everything then the next minute he doesn't and you do evrything equally...

I think that Martin is right in that It is nothing to do with insurance, and that its just a great opportunity to annoy men.

So If you think that its nothing to to with equal rights for men and women, I'll bring it back to my original argument...

I have just done 'the test' again... and for me, I get cheaper insurance as a man than as a woman. So, please please try to answer this question without bombarding me with your 'FACTS' that don't seem to fit MY case....

Why are these women only insurance companies not sticking to these so called 'FACTS' and offering me more expensive insurance?

Just answer that!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/17 19:17:37.

Good lord, I posted here a year ago and the debate is still going on?

Fact of the matter is women are DIFFERENT to men, not better, not worse, but different. It's how we've evolved as humans, and I'm willing to agree that women are infact safer drivers than men, but saying that you're better makes no sense.

Better in what context? Safer, yes. Better, no.

The point we're getting at is not 'We're men, we're better than you feeble women!' the point we're making is that after fighting for EQUALITY all of these years it seems somewhat hypocritical for women to tip the balance the other way and walk all over us.

I'm 18, I've yet to learn to drive, but I've been raised to respect women and treat them equally as people. The difference between men and women is not significant enough to warrant us being classed differently from one another.

Take 10 men and 10 women, completely at random. They'll ALL be different.

We're all people, and as such should ALL be treated as indeviduals. Both men AND women. The sooner BOTH sides of this sexism argument realise that fact, the sooner we can have the equality that we all want and the sooner we can move onto more important issues.

Posted by Gary at 2006/05/18 14:45:02.

Well put Gary.

This is the point that I've been trying to make to Holly. The fact that we are all different and that insurance companies should quote on individuality and not on sexism. In general, women may be 'Safer' drivers, but that is not the best way to class insurance because not EVERY woman is 'Safer' than men.

I have desprately tried to convince Holly. I have even tried a bit of reverse psychology by changing my stand point in an attempt to make her step back and take stock. But it has all fallen on deaf ears. Holly is a woman, and even though in an ideal world things should be equal, they never will because of women like her. Women with tunnel vision and with such a closed mind.

She still however, needs to answer my question. Why are these women only insurance companies offering me the same or cheaper insurance premiums as a man?

Well the answer lies in what you said. Holly needs to realise and take this on board. The fact is that these insurance comanies are perhaps looking at insurance quotes on an individual basis and not as women vs men. Thats why my insurance is cheaper as a man... because its not as a man but as me. And thats my point!

But whats all the fuss about? In a nut shell, these companies that advertise women only insurance. Its all an advertising hype to drum up extra business. And unfortunately, women are the targeted customers. And if you think about it.... you'll find thats the TRUTH!.

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/18 15:53:59.

Looks like i've finally won this argument Holly.

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/20 06:56:26.

You may think you have won, but just face it, when it comes to car insurance, women win hans down. They are the words of women only insurance company 1st for women. I have given you all the facts about how and why women make better drivers. Also, if men are better drivers, why are there no insurance companies just for men?
As for your test, i have already done it and given you the results. I did another one with churchill and as a woman i was 210 pounds (so i clearly do save money with diamond!) and as a man i was a staggering 356 pounds!!!
Also, stop picking on sarah cawood Martin as she is only doing her job. As for diamond only being there to annoy men, i don't think so. They are here to provide women drivers with cheaper insurance than men, as we deserve this for our superiority behind the wheel. If they can annoy men at the same time, and they clearly are! then that is absolutely great!!!
Paul, you will never ever win because the facts are against you, and women have plenty of insurance companies designed just for us, men do not!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/20 14:15:45.

Sorry Holly, you have given me nothing that I can take as hard fact and you STILL have noy answered my question. I am not interested in what YOUR insurance costs so until you answer my question you have won NOTHING!

Q. Why are these women only insurance companies offering ME not YOU but ME the same or cheaper insurance premiums as a man?

I now know 36 people that have done my test and including you, there are only 3 of them that it has come out cheaper as a woman and 4 people that got refused insurance. Funny That!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/21 10:42:10.

While you are thinking about an answer to my question Holly, take a look at the photo evidence that women are not better drivers than men at - www.visual-interactive.co.uk/women

You never get pictures of men doing this kind of stuff!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/21 10:57:54.

Paul, you still won't accept my facts. How can you not call my facts hard. They are official. Also i have seen your hilarious pictures. Clearly this is a site by men and i should point out that there are many of these sites by women which show pictures of men drivers.
I would also like to give you some serious sites to look at:
As i have been forbidden sending links go to google and type in "women better drivers says watchdog " and you will find a page commenting on a subject very similar to this.
Then go back to google and type in "women drivers better claim proved" and the srgument should be over!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/21 24:42:34.

Firstly, i have read the watchdig report and it states that it was an Advertising Standards Authority ruling. Well they rate TV adds and have nothing to do with rating drivers. I want to know where they got their figures from. Where are the results for me to view?

Secondly, the next link on google is an interesting article which states - Young women drivers could pay up to 30% more for cover if European plans are taken up, the City watchdog has warned. Well this is fair. The exact thing that we all want... equal rights.

Thirdly, I wasn't forbidden from posting a URL (website link) into this forum, but hey, thats because i'm a man.

Finally, you have STILL failed to answer my question. And I am begining to think you don't have an answer...

Q. Why are these women only insurance companies offering ME not YOU but ME the same or cheaper insurance premiums as a man?

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/22 01:18:51.

Delighted to say that the EU voted against the proposition of equal car insurance premiums for men and women. This is because it was proved that women are better drivers than men and deserve their lower premiums. So as you said women would be paying 30% more, i guess they are still paying 30% less!
As for your question, clearly you are bound to pay less than some women, but you don't pay less than men, and women officially pay less than men on average, by around 30%. That is a fact. Why won't you recognise my statistics, because you know they are true and are concerned by them becuase when you admit they are correct, i have won the argument.
The main argument is about who pays less and it looks like that is women, actually, it is women.
Also, the ASA ruled that the diamond ad didn't break any rules, like false advertising. The ad stated women were better drivers, so they must be. Diamond provided the ASA with sufficient evidence to prove this. FACT.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/22 17:59:17.

Won this argument! I don't think so Holly, Not by a long shot!

Q. Why am I bound to pay less than some women? Can you answer that?

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/23 13:41:14.

Well, well, well, I have just stumbled across some interesting FACTS that completely blow all your facts out of the water Holly.

Here's a few FACTS that condem women as worse drivers than men!

1) There are just over twice the number of insured vehicles driven by men as women.

2) That does not include OCUPATIONAL driving, such as taxi and lorry driver (even trains apparently)

3) Women generally insure cheaper cars than men.

4) Women drive fewer miles.

5) Women account for 69% of all the speeding tickets in the UK and ireland. (LOL)

Just the numerical statists for this alone condems females to be worse than male drivers, on the account that they include conditions like other drivers who drive for a living, which make the number of male drivers 3-4 times the number of women drivers. In turn, this will result in the statistics being higher for men. In reality if you compare the same number of men and women, women suck at driving and thats a FACT!

And there it is! I think you have just lost the argument me darling cos with those statistics us men have you licked!

Enjoy!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/23 20:41:08.

Listen carefully Paul, women account for 47% of all drivers on the roads in Britain. That's basically half, correct. Yes. Here are some official home office statistics about the driving faults of men, actual proper facts about what happens on the roads:
Driving offences by MEN are:

Dangerous driving: 93%
Causing death/bodily harm: 94%
Drink driving: 89%
Drug driving: 89%
Careless driving: 85%
Breaking speed limit: 83%
Obstruction, waiting, and PARKING offences: 77%

Men may drive more miles but these stats are pretty convincing i think. It's us girls who have the men LICKED!
It's no wonder Britains roads are unsafe if men drive more miles! I say let us girls take over the family driving, that will make everyone much safer.
By the way, overall, men are convicted for 88% of all driving convictions.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/25 14:15:38.

WRONG!

There are just over twice the number of vehicles driven by men as women. So that means that approx. 68% of drivers are men. So lets apply this to your Home Office Facts.....

Dangerous driving: 46.5%
Causing death/bodily harm: 47%
Drink driving: 44.5%
Drug driving: 44.5%
Careless driving: 42.5%
Breaking speed limit: 41.5%
Obstruction, waiting, and PARKING offences: 38.5%

And I have loaded this calculation in favour of women. I haven't even started with the more milage etc, etc...

If you get statistics for 1000 women and 1000 men you will in fact find that men are in fact better drivers than women. You can't ignore these numbers, If you do, its like seeing what the least amount of juice is you can get out of 1 apple compaired to 1000 oranges.

So once again, there it is! I think you have just lost the argument cos with those statistics us men have you licked all over!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/25 18:07:37.

Trying to bend the stats won't wash with me paul. They are official Home Office figures released by the home office to confirm that women were indeed better drivers.
Since then a study has shown that women are better drivers than men in every department that matters. The only area they lost to men was in parking, but not many people die because of bad parking!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/25 20:27:31.

Sorry Holly, but there is no bending going on here, Given the new information I have found I am simply re-evaluating the 'Home Office' statistics you found. You are not going to convince me by constantly quoting these facts to me.

I have put foward a claim that invalidates the 'Home Office' statistics. Its now down to you to prove me wrong. Show me statistics recorded from an equal number of men and women and I will believe that women are safer drivers than men.

Until you do, my evaluation of your facts will remain. So like I said... I think you have just lost the argument cos with those statistics us men have you licked all over!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/26 01:04:11.

That is fine Paul, think what you like. All i know is that I get cheaper car insurance than men i know and that is the most important thing for me.
Also, it is an accepted fact that women's claims cost less and our insurance is lower. If yours is lower than some women you know then great for you. But on average, women's is lower than men's. Common FACT. Just live with it Paul.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/31 19:28:03.

Despite finding diamond adverts extremely annoying, i have done a little research into this topic. I won't blind you with the facts but i did find a lot of womens insurance companies and find that multi sex ones usually offer their female customers a cheaper deal. I still believe insurance should be based on individuality and think that diamond should advertise without the 'lets take the piss out of men' attitude. Paul, i don't think women are BETTER drivers but do think that they are Safer, there is a difference. Would you agree?

Posted by Martin at 2006/06/01 16:38:51.

Another mistake you made Paul because it looks like i've won this argument now!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/06/11 14:53:23.

Yes Holly, you have won the argument that women currently get cheaper car insurance than men. But we knew that all along didn't we! You still have a lot of work to do to prove that women are safer drivers than men. Like I said, you need to show some statistics with an equal number of men and women. And, until you do, you have proved nothing.

So, good luck in your quest!

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/13 13:22:43.

So you admit women get cheaper car insurance than men. There must surely be a reason for that. Hasn't it hit you that the reason is that women are safer drivers than men, and also better drivers than men. Our reward is cheaper premiums, and men's punishment is more expensive premiums!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/06/18 17:05:05.

Holly, you couldn't be further from the truth. The point is that the excessive premiums that men pay are unjustified. and there are no true statistics that prove that women are safer drivers than men. You have to realise that until there are statistics with an equal number of men and women, this argument will go on forever.

Furthermore Holly, better, safer, there is a difference. And I have to agree with some of the other posts. Men are better drivers than women.

So, I look forward to your statistics with an equal number of men and women. Good luck!

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/19 15:13:36.

hmmm no statistics Holly? Well it looks like i've won this argument now!!!

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/25 02:03:49.

Women make up 45% of drivers on the road. I have given you the facts already. Women are only 5% off making up half of the drivers and the stats are massively in favour of women, some standing at 97%, 92%, 89%, 85%. 5% more women wouldn't make that much of a difference. Also, look at most car insurance companies, excluding those who prefer to insure women and you will see they have policies for dealing with women, eg privilage and norwich union, because after all Paul, women are the better drivers!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/06/26 21:12:46.

Sorry Holly, but just blurting numbers at me does not prove a thing. You need to tell me where you got these figures from. (And by-the-way, they need to be 'officially printed statistics' showing a studdy taken from an equal number of men and women not just a load of numbers pinched off the internet) Also, Im not interested in insurance company's figures as its those that I am contesting!

And its no good saying that if insurance is cheaper for women it must mean that women are better drivers. If we all made that argument, the world in which we live would never change or progress would it!

So, after now voiding your comments, men will remain better drivers than women until such time you provide locations of said 'Official' documents with studies taken with an equal number of men and women.

PS. Just to back up my claim that women are more dangerous than men.... I know plenty of women that a) don't know where their dip stick is. b) Don't know how to fill their windscreen washer bottle up (Which is an offence if not filled by-the-way... 3 points and a fine! c) don't know how to check tyre tread depth and pressure. and d) can't park or reverse for toffy!

So, once again... Good luck!

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/27 05:17:38.

You are blind to the stats i give you because you don't want to believe them. They are OFFICIAL HOME OFFICE FIGURES. I also find your claim of men being better drivers quite interesting. Why don't you give me evidence that men are better drivers, because until you do you have no right to say that they are. However, i know you won't find any stats like this because they don't exist!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/06/28 11:31:44.

You are correct Holly, I am blind to the stats you give me and I don't want to believe them because your OFFICIAL HOME OFFICE FIGURES don't specyfy if they were taken from an equal number of men and woman.

So, once again... Good luck getting those figures and until then, men will remain better drivers.

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/28 14:38:53.

Struggling to fing them statistics Holly? I don't think you are gonna find them. I personally don't think that an independant test has been carried out with an equal number of men and women... But keep searching...

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/30 18:54:25.

Paul, look at your yellow pages insurance section and see how many companies are created for women and how many are created for men. Also, if there are apparently no stats, hoe come you are saying men are better drivers, you have no proof, but i have lots of companies who want to insure me, and advertise aiming to insure me, why are these companies aiming not to insure you?

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/03 14:18:59.

GREAT IDEA! Lets take a look at the yellow pages....

Right. I've got 104 companies selling insurance. I won't go through them all but lets just see how many advertise for women only... We've got....

Asda Insurance.... They're not women only.
Swinton Colonnade Insurance Brokers.... They're not women only.
Budget Retail.... They're not women only.
Norton Insurance Services Ltd.... They're not women only.
The Insurance Partnership.... They're not women only.
Norwich Union Direct.... They're not women only.
N F U Mutual.... They're not women only.
CITY INSURANCE GROUP.... They're not women only.
1ST QUOTE INSURANCE.... They're not women only.
ENDSLEIGH INSURANCE SERVICES.... They're not women only.
QUICK QUOTE INSURANCE SERVICES.... They're not women only.
The Policy Shop Ltd.... They're not women only.

mmmm I don't know Holly, im struggling here...

S.G BUSBY.... They're not women only.
Dickson & Co Insurances.... They're not women only.
Express Insurance Services Limited.... They're not women only.

oh, oooh hang on.....

Diamond.... But wait a moment, they insure men!
sheilas wheels... But wait a moment, they insure men!

All in all Holly, I've found about 12 insurance comanies for women out of 104, and only 2 of them don't insure men. So once again your facts are bollocks.

So stop talking compete and utter shite and realise that women are not better or safer than men. Until you get the statistics that say women are better than men from an independant test carried out with an equal number of men and women, your argument will remain pointless bollocks. So you'd better get used to that fact!

Good luck finding them statistics Holly. I'll keep an eye on this website incase you find some!

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/03 18:16:34.

For some reason I feel strangely attracted to fiercely argumentative women. Holly- you sound like my kind of girl. I'll insure you any day!

Posted by Jimmy at 2006/07/04 24:48:51.

Blimey! My favourite comment was "WILL THE AUTHOR OF THIS BLEEDING WEBSITE SORT OUT THE REPEATED POSTS CAUSED BY CGI TIIME OUT ERRORS."

One way to fix this could be turning off any further comments!

Posted by John at 2006/07/04 13:01:11.

John, since this started, I should think that most of the people posting have now reached the lower premiums through age!! :)

Posted by Mad Mumsie at 2006/07/04 13:19:01.

Its funny, Its only Holly left thats arguing. I've repeatedly asked her for equal women/men facts and she keeps avoiding the issue and talking bollocks. So as far as I am concerned.... Men are better, case closed.

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/06 24:34:42.

Paul, you say men are better, but you have no evidence at all, whilst i have given you evidence which you continue to ignore. Also, any car insurance company designed for women is 1 more company designed for women then there is designed for men. The facts i gave you are overall facts about british men and women drivers, from the home office. Therefore they are considering every driver in britain, not an independant survey of a few men and women, but all britains drivers. Car insurance companies gave information about the claims that the 2 sexes made and the facts which i have given you on many an occasion were the outcome. They are heavily in favour of women and women make up 45% of britains drivers, nearly half. Another 5% is hardly likely to make a huge difference to the figures. So wake up and realise that you are the one who needs to find evidence to prove men are better drivers, because the facts are all in favour of women and the car insurance companies agree with me. Also, diamond, sheilas wheels and cover girl, the 3 main women only insurers will only insure men as a named driver on a woman's policy. If the women doesn't want the man then the man won't be insured!
Finally, you go on about me being the only woman left arguing, but you are the only man left arguing. This is agian eveidence of you being completely unaware of all that surrounds you and you like to hide away from the facts don't you.

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/06 18:57:23.

Unfortunatlely Holly, you have given me a load of bollocks facts that dont reflect a true representaion of the driving population and regardless of where you got them from.

So stop being so blind and finally realise that until there are statistics available with an equal number of men and women involved, you have absolutley nothing to add!

With the bullshit so called facts you keep on blerting at me, there are twice the number of men than women. So of course women would be better than men... This is exactly what I am disputing.

Now run along and get me some equal statistics... cos until you do my preety, you are contributing bupkiss to the debate.

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/06 19:38:27.

I agree this is a form of female chauvinism because even their advertisement's are hateful toward's men with all of these inappropriate comment's like boy racer, and dangerous driver these steriotype's about men are totally untrue it's the female driver's themself's that are hopeless dangerous driver's because they are too busy looking at the newest fashion accessories and shoes more than their concentration on the road!!!, I'am Ferious!!!!!!! about this it drives me to the brink of insanity everytime these feminazi's broadcast their male hate campaign and sheilas wheel's are just as bad!!! come on guy's start an all male only dominated car insurance company to show these
housewifes that they should stay better give this up otherwise we men will be forced to start our own anti-feminist canpaign and believe me it won't stop here we will take it to the street's male pride all the way :-).

Posted by Michael O'Flaherty at 2006/07/11 13:47:24.

I think we've finally drummed it into Holly that there are no statistics supporting either case and therefore womens only car insurance is sexist and should be banned.

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/13 19:28:50.

I have proved everything i need to prove to you over and over again. Women nearly always get cheaper car insurance than men, the stats i have given you prove women are better drivers. You won't admit to the evidence. How many insurance companies specialise in men's insurance? NONE, there must be a reason for this and that reason is that women are better drivers. Wake up and realise it.

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/13 22:30:26.

BRILLIANT Holly! OK, now you have got these stats the argument will now be resolved.... Just to confirm, please tell me how many men and how many women were included in these new stats you have?

Please let us know ASAP as we are all eager to know.

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/14 17:13:40.

Well Holly, I guess that if you have not got the figures of how many men and women there were in these statistics of yours then they are like i have maintained all along..... Meaningless bollocks.

You have proved NOTHING! all you have done is blurted facts no doubt, copied and pasted from some website you have found and they font reflect the true driving population. Then you try to be all clever by saying that you get cheap insurance so you're OK... welll Great!... I get cheaper insurance than you so whats been achieved there,...... again.... NOTHING!.

Then you go on to say that there are women only insurance companies and no men insurance companies, so therefore it must be true that women are better drivers than men.

Welll If that is all you can base it on then you have lost the argument.... So like I said.... the only way you are gonna win is if you get me statistincs from an equal number of men and women.. and we all know that that aint gonna happen.

So finallly, men are better than women..... and if you dont like it!, get me some facts like i have asked. cos anything else just won;t do.

CASE CLOSED...

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/15 17:37:08.

If men are better than women, then you find me some facts to prove it. This works both ways. I have more evidence then you and if you think official home office figures are just copy and pasted from some website then you are wrong, they are official and they are taken from 45% of women and 55% of men. The stats are so much in womens favour that the 5% makes no difference. Now i have given you what you wanted you have to admit women are better drivers, something that i, and all the other girls out there, have known for ages, you just can't see the obvious.

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/16 23:13:42.

Its no good telling me about these figures.... I want to see these Home Office stats for myself. Tell me where i can find them.

If you need to tell me a wabsite address to go to, enter it without the h t t p : / / bit. e.g. www.website.co.uk

I look forward to seeing them!

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/17 02:14:20.

Holly, please try and get your head around this.

According to Diamond, women have pretty much the same number of accidents as men, but less write-offs. They also say that women drive fewer miles than men. This means that women have the same amount of accidents in spite of driving less. It can, therefore, be logically concluded that if women drove the same distances as men, they would have MORE accidents. Also, because women drive shorter distances, they probably spend less time on motorways, and therefore drive slower. If they increased their annual mileage, their speed would increase, and so would the seriousness of their accidents. Also, by your own admission, there are less women driving than men. If these numbers were the same, along with everything else mentioned so far, the number of accidents would presumably even out.

Still with me, Holly? I am not disputing that women have less crashes than men. Nor am I disputing that companies should offer people who have less crashes cheaper insurance, as that is just business sense. But I am disputing the idea that this makes them better or safer drivers than men. As I demonstrated in the previous paragraph, the variables between the two are too great for a definitive statement to be made. In order for a concrete distinction to be formulated, it would be necessary to carry out tests with a carefully chosen test group. This would involve choosing men and women of the same age, from the same area, who drive the same cars, on the same routes, at the same times of day, and for the same periods. Until this happens, it cannot be said that men or women are the better drivers. Do you agree, or are you so blinded by your arrogance that you will persist with your baseless argument that women 'just are' better.

And as for you asking why companies are so eager to offer you insurance if women aren't better drivers, the answer is that it's a marketing gimmick. The companies know that women are naive enough to fall for it, and how eager they are to 'get one over on the boys'. Having looked on other forms, I have noticed a lot of women complaining that they found cheaper quotes than those offered by Diamond or Sheila's Wheels. So, maybe these companies are just pretending to be cheap, knowing full well that many women won't bother to do their research. After all, Diamond and Sheila's Wheels are done 'by women for women', and women wouldn't dream of ripping their 'sisters' off, would they?

One final point about statistics. If I did my research and found out that black people were more likely to crash than white ones, could I set up and advertise a company that would specialise in insuring white people? Or what about if I owned a shop and proved with research that black men were more likely to steal from shops? Could I then refuse to allow black people into my shop, or charge a black-only fee for admission to make up what I would probably lose? Or would my efforts be condemned and treated with the disdain they would deserve, when in fact what I was trying to do would not be any different to what Diamond and Sheila's Wheels actually do every day?

By the way, Holly, I want to see the URL for these statistics you keep crowing on about. So do what Paul says and provide us with them.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/07/17 10:48:56.

I believe that you make a sensible comment Robbo, although i disagree that women would choose diamond because they are just for women. I did my research and found that diamond offered me less, and sheilas wheels actually offer me even less, so i may go with them next time. Most females i know get a good deal with diamond. I will try to balance my opinion slightly. The reason that diamond split men and women up is because that is the easiest way to split people up, not by race but by gender, you are either male or female. On the other hand you may be black, white, tanned, dark but not fully black.

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/17 13:47:32.

Read this page, it gives you the facts you want and may point out a few things you didn't know:

Go onto google home page and type this in:

www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3703629.stm

Google will then give you the page to go on.

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/17 14:00:28.

Holly, that article is two years old, and the statistics it quotes are from 1998-2002. Do the same with the link provided below and it will take you to a company called Ladybird Insurance. Although the website is aimed at women, and riddled with the kind of unsubstantiated male-bashing propaganda that one would expect, the article entitled The Wheel Deal does surprisingly contain some points about how female drivers are getting worse. Unsurprisingly, though, it offers this information as a warning to women to stop them losing their 'moral advantage' over men.

www.ladybirdinsurance.co.uk/Two%20feature%20articles/article3.html

In regard to your article, anybody who does not feel that women have a competitive streak when driving has obviously never been carved up by a girl racer and her loosely-clenched fist-waving minions. Either that, or they've never been subjected to mothers doing the early-morning school run in the 4x4s they always choose over people carriers - presumably because they think they make them bigger and exude power. Driver competitiveness as a male trait is as much a myth as the idea of domestic violence being a totally one-way affair, with women always being the victims.

I did some research of my own and put my details into Confused as a woman. Oddly, neither Diamond or Sheila's Wheels featured in the top five, and the cheapest company was one called Insure And Go, which also offered me my cheapest quote as a man. It even manages this without resorting to the tacky and cynical advertising Diamond and Sheila's Wheels feel the need to use as bait for women. It seems that these companies are nothing more than normal insurers. The only difference I can see is that they think they are being clever by using social tensions, and the apparent contemporary female need to outdo men, as a marketing ploy to convince women that they are getting a good deal, when in fact a wide range of other companies would have offered the same or better. Men seem to be a more sceptical audience and wouldn't fall for such tactics, as they are more concerned with the ends (the price) rather than the means (the adverts), and are more willing to do research before choosing.

Rather than segragating drivers by sex or any other factor, companies could actually start treating people like individuals. In Germany, for instance, the number of years spent actually driving is considered more important than age, whereas the opposite seems to be true in the UK.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/07/17 17:15:23.

Robbo, its great to have someone else backing up and re-establising the comments I made months ago. I just find it strange that Holly has found your comments to be 'sensible' and have without review, dismissed all my comments which happen to be based on exactly the same lines of your comments.

Nevertheless, I am glad that she is now re-evaluating our points of view and starting to take them on board... I am interested how far Holly is prepared to go with this.

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/17 18:17:44.

Please don't think all women are like Holly. So she gets cheap car insurance, why tell the whole world. Lots of people get cheap car insurance, including men, yes Holly including men. I think we all admit that young women get cheaper insurance than young men, it shouldn't be the case but that is the way it is. The way i look at it is that it is great for young women. However, after a few years, the individualk driver proves what type of driver he/she is and gets a quote based on driving record. There are many good male drivers, and female drivers. Basically there is almost no difference between men and women.
When i heard about sheilas wheels i thought i would get a quote from them, not because i thought, "great they don't insure men", just because they claimed to give women a better deal, and lets face it we will do whatever possible to get the best deal. There quote was 250 pounds more expensive than my quote from Tesco car insurance. Unbelieveable. Unlike Holly i am not desparate to be with a women only firm.
Sheilas wheels and diamond are simply advertising machines and lie. It wouldn't surprise me that women like Holly are fooled by them.
Anyway, ignore Holly she seems to have a problem with men, just let her be.

By the way has her husband divorced her yet?

Posted by Samantha at 2006/07/23 22:50:28.

Thanks for your input Samantha. I don't think all women have a problem with men, but it does seem to be an increasing trend amongst young women. However, that doesn't really surprise me, given the constant media assault on us.

In terms of driving, I feel that car insurance quotes for men and women will even out in future. As I said in my previous post, I think the reason women have less serious crashes is because they spend less time driving. Thinking some more about this, I realised that I could probably count on one hand the number of taxis I have been in that were driven by women. In fact, the same seems to be true in any job where driving is a major part of it - most lorry drivers, bus drivers and travelling sales people seem to be men. However, more women appear to be moving into these jobs, and so I expect that in future the accident statistics will paint a more accurate and fairer picture.

I also have concerns about these statistics, as I am unsure of what they actually show. Are the statistics representative of accidents in which the police turned up, or did the Home Office get them from the insurance companies. In either case, how do accidents which were settled on the spot, without either the police or insurance companies getting involved, figure into them? Also, what about accidents in which the person who caused them did not stop, or hit-and-runs where nobody was caught?

Posted by Robbo at 2006/07/23 23:58:57.

Well, well, well, I never would have thought that this debate would come to a close. I guess that mens point have view have finally been accepted and that women have accepted that there are no supporting facts to warrent womens only car insurance. All that is left to say I suppose is this... Women, be careful when choosing your insurance because all they want is your money!

Posted by Paul at 2006/08/17 17:10:05.

But womens car insurance is still cheaper than mens car insurance! FACT

Posted by Holly at 2006/08/28 19:02:41.

Yes Holly, womens car insurance works out cheaper for YOU. And I don't really care to be honest, because I have 16 years NCB which makes my insurance cheaper than yours anyway.

Thats right Holly! I have never had an accident, prang, bump, killed someone or caused an accident. Allthough I have seen many and funny enough they all involved... Yes you've guessed it.... WOMEN!

Posted by Paul at 2006/08/29 06:05:58.

Paul, you said once what your car insurance quote had been, and mine was cheaper than yours! I have also never had any sort of accident and have been driving for 15 years. Therefore, as we have similar driving records and i am a woman, my insurance will be cheaper than yours because being a woman, i represent a lower risk than you do. This is because women are safer and better drivers than men!

Posted by Holly at 2006/08/29 24:27:14.

And so, the endless circle continues ...

Posted by Robbo at 2006/08/29 18:36:00.

Holly, here's an analogy for you which uses your own logic. Mr Happy never crashed a plane last year. In fact, Mr Happy has never crashed a plane in his life. Actually, Mr Happy has never flown a plane in his life, and probably never will. Mr Angry, on the other hand, has flown for thirty years, and will probably do so for another thirty years. Over this time, Mr Angry has flown hundreds of thousands of miles, and had only one crash (which he and his passengers survived). But, Mr Happy must be the better pilot because Mr Happy has NEVER CRASHED a plane. This makes Mr Angry very angry.

Also, I don't like playing football. In fact, I hate it, so I don't bother. So, on the very rare occasions I did when I was forced to at school, I used to go in goal so I could put as little effort in as possible. I reckon throughout the space of my life, I've probably let in no more than twenty goals. Now, I will guarantee you that there will not be a goalkeeper in the Premiership who can honestly say that he has let in less than twenty goals in his WHOLE LIFE. The fact that the amount of time I have spent on a football pitch is a mere fraction of theirs is immaterial. I'M THE BETTER GOALIE BECAUSE I'VE LET LESS GOALS IN!! I think I'll get down to Old Trafford on Saturday and show them how great I am, and (if they're lucky) accept a twenty million pound contract. How could they possibly refuse me, once I point out the 'facts' and how great I am, according to Holly's (arrogant, ignorant, misinformed, prejudiced, stupid, sexist) logic?

As you're so keen on facts, Holly, let me REMIND (I have pointed these out previously) you of some:

FACT: There are more men drivers than women ones. So, there are more men to have driving accidents.

FACT: Men drivers travel further than women ones. So there is more opportunity for the men drivers (of which there are MORE, remember?) to have accidents.

FACT: The number of women moving into jobs which involve driving is increasing. For instance, more women are driving lorries now than used to be the case. As these numbers increase, so, too, will the number of serious accidents caused by women.

And some more:

FACT: Don't try to be selective with facts when you get on your high horse, because you will get knocked back off it. Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that you are arrogant and close-minded enough to persist that you didn't get knocked off it even as you lay sprawled in a pile of horse shit with a bloody nose.

FACT: (As we are so keen on sweeping statements around here) Most men argue logically ('Well, men are better because ...') and use science and reason. Most women, on the other hand, argue emotionally ('I just AM better') and cry like six year olds until they get their own way, and then have the cheek to demand equality and respect. This is why Holly will never accept what I, Paul, or any other man, says to her - she has her own language and just filters out anything else. (Notice that I wrote 'most women' - I'm neither arrogant nor ignorant enough to apply a single trait, no matter how despicable or honourable, to a whole sex, as seems to be the fashion round here)

FACT: Diamond Insurance was formed by Admiral, which was in turn created by a man called Henry Englhart. Sheila's Wheels, on the other hand, is part of the HBOS Group, in which only three of the fourteen directors are women. See girls, no matter how hard you try to declare your independence, and prove that you are better, the fact of the matter is that by chucking money into Diamond and Sheila's Wheels to prove your point, you are just really lining the pockets of a bunch of men who were sharp enough to spot a gullible audience.

FACT: Holly, you cannot say that you represent less of a risk than Paul (or any man for that matter) without comparing your vehicles. Or do you really believe that a woman driving a Bugatti Veyron (the most powerful street-legal car in the world, with a top speed of 253 mph) is safer than a man in a 1-litre Nissan Micra? Please, do tell.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/08/29 20:21:13.

Robo, I totally agree and have repeated exactly what you have said to Holly plenty of times myself. At the end of the day it is wasted breath simply because as you say, she is arrogant, ignorant, misinformed, prejudiced, stupid, sexist and quite frankly - pathetic

In fact, she already knows that she is arguing a lost cause. However, she continues simply to bait us and to have the last entry on this forum. I am now goint to put this to the test....

Holly now has the chance of showing me that I am wrong by accepting the FACTS that we have both shown her and by never posting anything else on this forum again. (Exspecially as the debate has now been ruled in mens favour)

Or alternatively she can show us all that i am right by posting another pointless argumentative, stupid comment just to get that last word in.

Lets see.....

Posted by Paul at 2006/08/30 07:35:42.

I wonder if Paul is committed to do what he wanted me to do. Will he want to have the last word, or can he resist and just let poor little pathetic me have the last word. I wonder, this will be interesting......

Posted by Holly at 2006/08/30 24:15:47.

Im afraid your double twister "lets try to turn this round on you" comments won't work with me Holly! The only interesting thing going on here is that you have (as predicted) proved my point exactly.

So ho ahead, just for the cheap seats.... post another stupid commemt. I know you're dying to. Well, in fact, i know your going to because now your not the last to post a comment here.... I am!

Posted by Paul at 2006/08/30 22:50:02.

Surprise, surprise!!!!

Paul isn't prepared to practice what he preaches!
At the end of the day he is simply not prepared to let a woman have the last word over him. Also, isn't it clever of him to take the conversation away from the real subject. He has run out of arguments and doesn't want to admit that women are better drivers and get cheaper premiums than men. But all us girls already know that.
Remind me, how many car insurance companies are 'men only' or focus on men?
Then how many do focus on women or are 'women only'?
I wonder if he will answer my question.

Posted by Holly at 2006/08/31 11:42:21.

Well, I guess im proved right once again!

To answer your question, please read my earlier post dated 18:16, Monday 03 July 06. I believe it was covered back then.

This is the reason I have changed the subject Holly, because its you that has nothing left to argue. Its all been said by you before and proved to be bollocks!

I suggest if you want to keep this debate open, try finding some new facts or another point of view. In the mean time, and just so we can all laugh at you some more, stick another pointless comment after mine!

Posted by Paul at 2006/08/31 14:08:13.

Here's another fact which just adds even more muscle to the fact that women are better drivers than men. In the last year women's average car insurance premium has fallen from 712 to 654 pounds whilst men's have fallen from 974 to 958 pounds. Women have experienced a greater reduction in car nsurance costs, so we are getting better drivers than men as we speak!

Posted by Holly at 2006/08/31 21:46:27.

Bla Bla Bla. Back up your facts Holly....

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/01 11:30:42.

Well, I haven't run out of arguments yet, Holly (although you seem oddly hesitant to argue with anything I say, or to answer any of my questions). You say that women are getting better at driving. Yet, in my second post on this website, I quoted a link to Ladybird Insurance - a women-oriented insurance company, I might add - which said that women were actually getting WORSE. The reductions in price you point to could be due to a variety of factors - market competitiveness, or call centres being moved to India for cheap labour, for instance. Look around you, Holly - most things are getting cheaper (mobile phones, MP3 players) as the poorer countries in the world (China is a prime example, as just about everything is made there nowadays) are being increasingly employed by the richer West. But, of course, you are incapable of considering things beyond face value - a fact you have proven at numerous points throughout this forum.

Another fact is that the insurance premium gap between men and women narrows when women hit forty, as their driving is known to get worse from thereon. In fact, in some cases, men older than forty can actually get cheaper insurance than women.

As I've pointed out several times already, as more women get on the road and do as many miles as men, they will have more serious accidents, and will lose their cheaper car insurance. Once the companies start losing money, they will make women's insurance the same as men. Plus, it's clear that men aren't prepared to put up with being treated like second class citizens any longer, and that there will soon be a male rights movement that will see women put in their place. And, by their place, I mean one of TRUE equality - rather than equal rights (ie, all the good bits of equality, without any of the bad ones). In spite of all their snivelling and protestation, you could probably count on one hand the number of western women who would actually like to be treated equally to men, rather than the fairy-tale princesses most of them seem to think they are.

And as for running out of arguments, Holly, you are the one who keeps going back to the usual 'women are better' crap, with made up numbers and very little proof.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/01 18:33:30.

Actually, the best group of drivers are women over the age of forty. Also, car insurance is set to rise by 40%, it is something that is going up, not down, so women keeping our lower premiums shows that we really are better drivers than men. All the facts i give you are real, not made up, but you make yourself blind to them. You refuse to admit to them because you are a typical man who can't face up to the fact that women are better at driving. You think driving is a man's thing, BUT IT ISN'T ANYMORE. Also, ladybird don't insure you directly, they just find women the cheaper quotes. Diamond, sheilas wheels, and covergirl all insure women directly, and they all confirm that women are becoming better drivers than men. Just look at the latest facts.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/01 22:02:21.

Actually, Holly, the facts show that at the age of forty-five women's insurance is more than men's. This is clearly shown in this article in a table at the bottom (add the http://):

shopping.guardian.co.uk/motoring/story/0,,1707063,00.html

These statistics come from the AA. Would you consider them a reliable source, or are they just a typical group of men, Holly? After all, I'm sure no women work for the AA. By your logic, the better drivers pay less for their insurance premiums. So, if women over forty are the best group of drivers, why are their insurance premiums more than for men of the same age?

If your facts are so real, then why don't you provide some EVIDENCE, as I have done frequently throughout my posts on this site? How can I look at the facts if you consistently fail to provide us with them?

Oh, and by the way, you quoted average car insurance premiums in a previous post. Surely, you realise that averages (means to give them their mathematical term) can be useless, as they are not actually the most common number (that would be the mode). An average is worked out by adding all of the values together and dividing them by the number of times a value occurred. Thus, if two out of ten values are extremely high, the average can be extremely misleading, unless properly accounted for (and as you did not offer a source for your claims, I cannot confirm for myself whether or not they were). This is why claims of 'average' earnings can be extremely misleading (for instance, 'the average salary in IT careers is £35,000'). The point is that the differences in average car insurance could just as much be down to men owning more expensive cars (which require higher insurance) than women, as it could men being worse drivers, or driving more miles per year. Did you consider this?

And, no, Holly, I don't think driving is a man's thing - I think it's an individual thing which varies between people, just like everything else in this world (I can't play the guitar, but I actually know a man who can. I suspect some women may be able to, as well). You are the one who generalises and stereotypes. Ironically, your statement that I am a 'typical' male is so typical of most women nowadays whenever a man disputes their point of view (see that word 'most', rather than 'all'?) - the only thing missing was 'sexist bastard' - as is your clear desparation to try and get one over on us. You silly, insecure, little girl, desperate to defeat a sexist male threat that, for the most part, doesn't even exist outside of neo-feminist man-hating propaganda, manufactured by women who have been abused, abandoned by their fathers, or who are unable to actually find a man to give them the love, wedding day, and children they so achingly crave for. It's about time we did away with the cliche 'male chauvinist pig' and replaced it with the far more appropriate 'female chauvinist bitch'.

I've been driving for more than seven years, can drive HGV, and was taught to drive defensively while I was in the army. I don't speed, have never crashed or claimed on my insurance, have no points, have two cars all to myself (one a company, one my own), and cover in excess of twenty-five-thousand miles per year. Suffice to say, I'm less than willing to accept that I'm a bad driver just because I'm a man.

What you cannot grasp is the concept of individuality. Okay, so men statistically have more serious accidents than women. What about the men who don't have accidents? Are they automatically bad drivers who have gotten lucky just for being men. And what about the women who do have serious accidents - are they still good drivers who have been unlucky just because they are women? Or could it possibly be that those people were INDIVIDUALS, each with different levels of skill (strong in some, weak in others) that were down to factors other than the sex they were born? And could it possibly be that the crashes happened because those people (both male AND female) who had serious crashes were placed in a situation which was at odds with their driving ability? Your claim that women are better drivers just for being women is obscene - it is no less than saying that black people are criminals just for being black. Are you willing to concede that perhaps, just PERHAPS, a person is more than the sum of their genes? Or do you persist with your misguided belief that people and their abilities are pre-determined by sex, and that socio-economic factors (like men driving more because of their jobs) play no part?

Ultimately, of coures, I realise that I might as well just stop writing now and get a spoon to eat my own head with. Because of course, your next post will just be more 'women just are better', '... women-only insurance ...', 'look at the facts I haven't provided any evidence for, but I promise are true', 'blah blah blah blah blah blah blah'.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/02 03:13:50.

Hey Robo, Guys, your gonna love this...

MEN ONLY INSURANCE AT
www.menonlyinsurance.co.uk

Watch out girls.... Things are moving fast.

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/02 07:01:15.

So now there is a male only insurance brand. However, as the facts show, the men in this insurance company will be paying much more than women in companies like diamond. I am glad this company exists, because now all the higher risk drivers ie men can join together and stop pushing up the rates for women drivers in multi sex insurance companies.
By the way, all my facts are official government statistics, as i have said before. You simply ignore my facts. How about trying to give some of your own because so far you have supplied me with none. At least i give you facts which you choose to completely ignore. That is not my problem.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/02 23:25:04.

And as we have said before, tell us where you got these 'official government facts' so we can consider them. As they are government facts, they must be on the internet somewhere, and since you seem to be so well versed in them, I'm sure you would easily be able to provide us with a URL for them. As for us not giving you our facts, what would you call the addresses to webpages I have given to support my facts. That's clearly more than you can manage.

Well, here is some more evidence for you to not even read. By the way, Holly, these REALLY ARE official government figures:

http://www.highways.gov.uk/aboutus/848.aspx

See the differences between the distances men and women drive, Holly? I really don't understand why you cannot grasp the logic of people who drive more (ie, men) having more crashes. Here is a pdf article (96 pages), which shows the differences in numbers between men and women who have driving jobs:

http://www.eoc.org.uk/PDF/wp_34_gender_equality_in_transport.pdf

The table on page 65 shows that the number of male transport drivers and operators in spring, 2003, was 884 thousand, compared to forty thousand for women. In fact, women made up only nine per cent of all transport occupations. So, Holly, as the people who do these jobs drive long distances all the time, who do you think is most likely to have crashes - men or women? By your logic, one could argue that a person who smokes one cigarette a day is less likely to catch cancer than somebody who smokes one-hundred a day because they 'just are' better at smoking.

For about the ten-millionth time, the number of women moving into jobs which require long-distance driving is on the increase. As women have roughly the same number of crashes as men - albeit less serious, because they drive less distance at less speed, and spend less time on motorways - one can therefore logically conclude that the number of women's accidents will be more than those had by men in future. And, yet again, as their speed will increase to cover the greater distances, their accidents will be of more severity. If you work it out, Holly (or maybe get an adult, or monkey, to do it for you), you might just see that women have more accidents PER MILE. So, MORE GIRLY MILES = MORE GIRLY CRASHES = HIGHER GIRLY INSURANCE COSTS.

And here is another article for you to completely and utterly ignore about an increase in women's drink driving:

www.theherald.co.uk/news/68035.html

And an article about how women's driving is getting worse:

http://insurance.excite.co.uk/special/women_road_ragers

And an article about how women get worse at driving with age, and how old women pay more car insurance than any other group, with many insurers just refusing to offer cover:

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/financial/elderly-car-insurance.html

The truth is that women won't need the men to drag their car insurance premiums up because they will be doing that all by themselves soon enough.

I've decided to write your response to this for you, to save you the time (I expect you're bored with banging the same crap out each time). So, just cut and paste below here and then all you will have to do is type your name in:

"I don't have to read the articles you linked to because I'm a woman and I'm always right. And the people who wrote those articles or came up with those statistics were just typical men anyway. Even the women ones. Women better drivers. Less crashes. Cheaper insurance. Sexist men just can't accept this. I like rainbows and puppies, and my car runs on foxes tears. Diamond, Sheila's Wheels. MEN ACCEPT IT."

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/03 02:26:18.

So, what do you think to Robbo's facts then Holly?

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/04 02:49:03.

"I don't have to read the articles you linked to because I'm a woman and I'm always right. And the people who wrote those articles or came up with those statistics were just typical men anyway. Even the women ones. Women better drivers. Less crashes. Cheaper insurance. Sexist men just can't accept this. I like rainbows and puppies, and my car runs on foxes tears. Diamond, Sheila's Wheels. MEN ACCEPT IT."

Posted by Robbo, 02:26, Sunday 03 September 06

Posted by Robbo finally admits to his true identity and feelings at 2006/09/04 15:05:16.

Well done, Holly. Now thank me for saving your brain cell some time and effort.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/04 18:45:28.

Well, once again... I cant believe that Holly has finally accepted the true nature of driving statistics in this country. (Many thanks to Robbo). I guess that this is finally the end! (Or is it?) Will Holly make another post just to be the last on the forum? Or is that really it? Lets see......

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/04 19:42:49.

Paul, you are spot on. I have fully accepted the driving and insurance stats in this country. That is why i am aware that women are safer and better drivers than men. This is what the statistics show. Women pay less for insurance, a subject that is currently being highlighted in the papers and on the internet. If you open your eyes, you will eventually realise this, but you don't and never will. I am correct in what i say, i know that i am. Women account for almost half of Britains drivers. Statistics also show that women drive more in towns, on the smaller roads where crasghes are more likely. Men drive more on the motorways, where the chances of a crash are far less likely. Yet still women have far less serious accidents than men. Incredible, well not really, women are just simply safer and better drivers. I have given you more statistics to yet again ignore i am sure.
I do believe that you are ignorant. blind to the facts men, but not like all men. There are lots of men who accept that women are safer drivers. You unfortuanately cannot, not my problem.

Now Paul, as yopu always want to see if i "Have the last word" lets see if any messages appear after this one. Ylou say i always want the last word, but whenever i write something, you always seem to have to write something after. Talk about being incapable of practising what he preaches.
Finally, i will never "give up" because the facts are there to be seen, and why should i allow you to talk complete tripe. Women deserve the tag of better and safer drivers because we actually take care with our driving. Why should i let people like you try to take something away from women that they work very hard for, that being the safest drivers and earning cheaper premiums.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/05 21:12:25.

Holly, your arrogance and ignorance never cease to astound me. Giving us 'statistics' would be pasting a URL to a webpage, offering figures and numbers compiled by a respected body. You simply claiming that women do this or that does not constitute 'statistical' fact, and nor does offering opinions from which ever tabloid rag you probably struggle to read.

How about you actually try addressing some of the points I raised, rather than trying to direct attention at Paul as a means of covering up your inability to do so?

One fact that is clear to me, however, is that we are wasting our time trying to open your eyes. It is simply impossible to win an argument with an idiot, as their mind is just incapable of processing the numerous facts and figures thrown at it. And, of course, your arrogance stops you from rectifying your stupidity and ever seeing colours beyond black or white.

You can have your cheap car insurance Holly, but you will eat your words in years to come. And I hope you choke on them.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/05 22:06:29.

You are spot on about trying to win ana rgument with an idiot. It is just absolutely impossible. But maybe you should look a little closer to home. The reason you won't win this argument is because YOU ARE WRONG. Just admit it, insytead of going into the abuse aimed at the opponent that people often do when they realise that the main cause has been all but lost.
I have addressed your request for facts and figures on numerous occasions, and don't intend on doing so again. If you want them, look at my previous posts. Also, if you call the times and independant "tabloid rags" then clearly you have a poor knowledge of newspapers, just like you have on car insurance! I also attain some facts from moneysupermarket.com (you may have seen the adverts) which looks at every insurance company, and see's what their prices for insurance are. They therefore can gain all the statistics needed. They have said that women are better drivers and that women's insurance is going down at a more rapid rate than men's. They also said that women in their forties aree the best drivers, something which you completely dismissed.
You seem perfectly happy to just say, "oh, she's a prat", but you refuse to see any of my statistics at all. Well they do say that women have better eyesight than men! By the way, do you want a website for that!!!!!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/06 10:53:00.

See, my point proved yet again. I have said nothing and you still need to be the last to post on this forum!

Anyway, I must congratulate you Holly, because I don't think that I have met any one that talks as much bollocks as you do. You are the worlds No.1 at talking complete and utter BOLLOCKS.

And i'd also just like to add. You can't argue for toffee. I've never heard so much waffle in all my life. Your like a little kid that hasn't got her own way. Well im sorry to tell you this little girl. You have no argument and never will have. End of story! GET USED TO IT!

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/06 11:25:15.

I also see that you couldn't resist the temptation to try and have the last say. You try to point the finger at me, but you are just as bad. Your previous posts about where you think a woman's place is and what she should do proves that you are a simple dirty man, living back in the stone age, who can't accept simple facts when put in front of him. I f i talk "Bollocks" then what do you talk? My facts are official and are accepted in the insurance industry for motors and by most people who can see further than their nose. I have said before that it isn't my problem if you refuse to listen to my fact.
I would also like to say that you are a pretty bad arguer as well, because you have absolutely no evidence at all and just dismiss all my evidence and facts without thinking twice. Also, you are fighting an argument where you are wrong, but can't accept it. If i am a spoilt liittle girl then you are just the same, apart from you are behaving like a little girl.
Now, let's see if Paul ever posts on here again, because if he does, and can't resist having the last say, then he is doing exactly the opposite to what he tells me to do. I just wonder.....

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/06 24:36:41.

Actually, Holly, they (ie, scientists, although you probably call them wizards and witches) say women have better peripheral vision, while men have more developed tunnel vision. These differences developed because of the different roles men (hunters - needed to see further to chuck spears) and women (looking after their kids - needed wider vision to see if anything was coming) had to take on in times gone by. So, not BETTER, Holly, but DIFFERENT. But, of course, this is a distinction you are incapable of making - a fact you have proven time and time again throughout this forum. But, if you can provide a website demonstrating that women have BETTER eyesight than men, then I would certainly welcome it. But, of course, you can't because it was just your own personal, sexist, biased opinion.

And, as for you reading The Times or The Indpendent, I simply don't believe that their readership is made up of people who don't know where to put capital letters in sentences (ie, the first letter of a name, like 'The Times', rather than 'the times' or 'the independent'). No, Holly, you clearly read The Sun, The Daily Star, or (on one of your good days) The Daily Mirror.

As for moneysupermarket.com, I just checked their website, and they say that they only check with FIFTY insurers. I'm fairly certain that there are more than fifty insurance companies in the UK. But, at least you told us where you get your 'facts' from - a website that would probably tell you that pigs could fly if they thought it would get you to go and look at the adverts they have been paid to put up.

As for having lost the argument, I haven't because I'm still presenting facts and arguments as I go along, and because you have not convinced me that I am wrong. In fact, all you have done is prove that there are some incredibly stupid and short-sighted women out there. I only insult you because it is the contempt and mockery such an object of ridicule deserves. I really wish there was an intelligent woman reading who could appreciate that women's car insurance is cheaper for a reason other than simply because it is for women. Perhaps you would actually listen to her. Alas, it seems to be just me and Paul who have to suffer you, Holly.

Anyway, I didn't dismiss the 'fact' that women in their forties are better drives. I disproved it by pointing out (and adding a source to some qualifying data, I might add) that women and men's insurance levels out during their forties. But, of course, you didn't read that, did you, Holly? Also, you keep trying to claim that there are as many women driving as there are men. However, it says in that article (written in February of this year) that 61% of women have a driving license as opposed to 81% of men. There are 23.5 million men in the UK, and 25.1 million women (source: http://www.esrc.ac.uk/ESRCInfoCentre/facts/UK/index38.aspx?ComponentId=12531&SourcePageId=14975). This works out at there being just over 19 million men who can drive (23.5x81/100), as opposed to just over 15 million women (25.1x61/100). The statistics you keep quoting are the number of men and women who drive their OWN cars, without considering those who get company cars for personal use (like me), and so do not require insurance. So, Holly, there are NOT as many women drivers as men ones - in spite of there being more women in this country. However, I have no doubt in my head that you'll come back and tell me there are because Diamond, or some other completely sexist company which needs to be outlawed, said there were.

As for trying to get the last word in, you can both save face by letting me have it. But, of course, by tomorrow, Holly will have posted something here just to try and get it. Personally, I'm happy to carry on mocking you.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/06 18:52:42.

ROFL, lets play it Holly's way then.

I've got the last word... I'm the best!

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/07 01:00:10.

Robbo, you yet again are providing me with meanless drivel, whilst ignoring all the proper facts i have provided you with. I didn't realise we were in the business of having to get every capital letter and every word correct.
Meanwhile, Paul is proving who the real child is around here. I would say that a company covering 50 insurers would have a really good idea of the facts. But why bother telling you this, because you are incapable of reading and absorbing it. Also, unlike you i don't need certain pages of the Daily Star and The Sun, therefore don't read those papers.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/07 24:23:31.

Well for me it just sums up this ridiculous feminist society in which we live in today in the UK. Women in the UK are the worst looking, worst natured, bigoted individuals I have had the misfortune to meet. You only have to go to the airport and spot the females who look like they have swallowed a wasp to see which women come from the UK.

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/07 14:51:13.

Yes, Holly, that's right. The numbers and scientific findings that don't agree with your ill-informed opinions are 'drivel'. Your husband really does have my sympathy for being married to such a mental cripple. If you have a son, he also has my pity, since you probably spend every waking moment torementing and persecuting him for not being a girl, and for being smarter than you.

Anyway, last night I thought of a way to resolve the ridiculous situation of men's car insurance in this country. I thought I would share it with the adults and ask them for their feelings. So, Holly, you can just ignore everything beyond this point (as if you wouldn't anyway), and get back to eating your crayons.

My proposal is this. When a man takes out insurance, he is quoted at the criminally inflated rate men are forced to pay. If he does not crash throughout the insurance period, he is refunded the difference between what he signed up for and what a woman, in exactly the same circumstances as him, would have been quoted. For the next year, the process is repeated, taking into account the man's new NCB status. Under such a system, only the men who actually ARE bad drivers will be punished, while those of us who take pride in their automotive control will be treated with the respect all decent human beings (so that excludes Holly) deserve, irregardless of sex or anything else given to them at birth. This will also offer those men who are bad drivers a cash incentive to take more care. As for the insurance companies, how could they possibly complain? After all, according to their sexist statistics, most men will probably crash, so they should still get to charge them a lot of money. Any whinging from the companies would only serve to shed doubt on their figures and the integrity of what they have been doing for years.

Although still sexist, this system would be considerably fairer than the current one. Clearly, there will be complaints from women like Holly (who can take her opinion and shove it). For a sexist bigot like her, it isn't enough to just get something - she has to see men deprived of it, just so that she can actually feel good about her horrible self once in a while. But, Paul and Jay, I would welcome your opinions on my idea.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/07 19:14:04.

As far as i am concerned you can take your opinion and shove it as well.
Your idea is stupid. The way it is done now is fine. Women are a lower risk, so get charged less, on average. Companies look at the facts for gender and age, and come up with quotes based on this. This is why women currently get cheaper insurance than men. Not sexist, JUST FACT.
Also, i could call you sexist for refusing to acknowledge the fact that women are better drivers than men. You don't give women the credit they deserve, so that could be called sexist.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/07 21:09:54.

Yes Holly, I'm being a child... Just in the sae way you are. From now on I am going to blert out shit just like you.

You have given me no FACTS to support your case. Bla Bla Bla. I am a man so of course I am a better driver than you. Bla Bla Bla. I get cheaper insurance that you (even though you don't know what car I drive). Bla Bla Bla. Just look at the FACTS Holly, they are undisputable. Bla Bla Bla. I'm a man, Im the best. Bla Bla Bla. And I have the last post again. Bla.

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/07 22:06:21.

Sorry Paul, the facts disagree with you.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/07 22:11:05.

That's right, Holly, I'm a sexist because I don't accept that people should be grouped together as men or women and treated like cattle, like you do. I'm a sexist because I think people should be treated as who they are, rather than what they are (except in your case), or what they were born as. Now why don't you go and ask an adult who has a 'dik-shun-erry' to tell you what sexism actually means?

If my idea is so stupid, then you should love it. Just as I expected, you are terrified of my idea because it would stop you from being able to gloat over cheaper insurance you shouldn't be getting in the first place. Although there are plenty of other arrogant sows in the world who would agree with you, there are actually women who believe that Diamond and Sheila's Wheels are sexist. It was, after all, Anna Diamantopoulou (former European commissioner for social affairs) who drew up the European directive which sought to get cheaper insurance for women scrapped. That same directive also rightly aimed to get salaries for women increased so that they were more in line with those paid to men. See, Holly, there are women in this world who have more than shit for brains, and would like to see TRUE equality (the good and the bad) put into force. Alas, you are not one of them. In fact, you are a prime example of everything that is wrong with our country. But, I am confident that common sense will eventually prevail, and that you will be put in your place. By the way, how can I be a sexist if I would like to see women get paid just as much as men (for equal work)?

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/07 23:17:24.

Sorry Holly, The FACTS are clear to me. I am a man. We are better drivers simply becase of that fact. You argue all you like because it makes no difference. I will continue to enjoy my Full No Claims bonus discounted cheap insurance. (We all know its cheaper than yours). Hopefully one day you might find cheap car insurance too. Who knows!

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/08 08:09:14.

Wrong again paul. I have a full no claims bonus as well, therefore as we have that the same, and i am considered a safer risk than you, because i am a woman my insurance will be cheaper than yours, and that is a FACT.
Robbo, that European aim to get equal insurance was dismissed because the facts clearly showed that women deserved their cheaper insurance than men. Or is there another reason, you probably think that everybody in the EU is sexist. Also, calling women sows shows that you are the sexist one here, i just point out the facts.
If men were better drivers than men women, then i would have no problem with men having cheaper insurance and 'men only' companies. But if is a big word, men aren't better drivers, women are, so women deserve their cheaper premiums. FACT.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/08 11:09:13.

"A safer risk because Im a woman" doesn't that mean that you like other women are more of a risk Holly??? Like a safer bet?
Your english grammar is not great. The last part just doesn't make sense and who taught you to start a sentance with but????
Maybe you should go away and learn how to construct a sentance so that we might not notice just how ignorant you really are.

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/08 11:35:16.

Yet again, i must state that if you want to turn this into an English grammar argument then you are in the wrong place. Stop trying to sway the argument away from the main point.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/08 13:55:59.

The main point about your grammar indicates that you are illiterate, so therefore, how can you argue your point?
You cant read up on the facts and actually understand what it is that you are reading.
So, please, do us all a favour - go back to school learn how to read, then, re-read the information and links provided and stop spouting rubbish.

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/08 15:12:56.

One last thing Holly, the argument over whether women are better drivers than men or not, is a meaningless point when you consider that women only insurance is sexist. This is after all where this discussion began and it seems that you are the one diverting the subject from the real issue here!

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/08 15:57:31.

I set up my car insurance with Diamond about 2 months ago.

I have had a few problems with them, but the main issue is that 2 weeks ago I had a letter from them saying they were cancelling my policy due to 2 undisclosed claims I had made with my previous insurer.

I called them to explain that in both instances the other party had admitted liability immediately. I was told that it didn't matter, and I had to pay a premium of £140!!!

I explained that I didn't understand why I would be penalised for somebody else driving into me and admitting it was their fault (isn't that what a no claims discount is for)?!

I have made a number of calls and sent letters, to which I have either had no reply or been sent a standard letter that often has had no relevance to my letters.

None of their correspondence to me has included a customer care contact number, and I have never come across a company with such a terrible customer care policy. They seem to be completely disorganised, and I would hate to think what would happen if I had to make a claim with them!

Posted by DONTBUYDIAMOND at 2006/09/08 16:18:35.

Read this. It just about sums it up.

www.visual-interactive.co.uk/insurance

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/08 16:45:00.

ROFL

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/08 17:05:10.

Yes, Holly, 'if' is probably a VERY big word for you. I didn't call all women sows - just the moronic ones, like you. My point in mentioning the EU directive was to illustrate that there are some sensible women in this world who would actually like to see equality for all. Having said that, she was Greek, and you are probably just as much of a racist as you are a sexist (bigots are rarely prejudiced in just one area, since they are so fond of the 'us and them' mentality), so you inevitably won't think much of her or her ideas. I don't think the EU commissioners are sexist, but simply too spineless to stand up and fight the neo-feminist 'I want the moon on a stick' backlash that would have ensued if they had not dropped the directive. As for the facts, Holly, you can't even see them, let alone point them out to anybody else.

Yes, Dontbuydiamond, that is what insurance companies do, and it is also unfair. When you take out a contract with them, they normally ask you if you have been involved in any crashes, irregardless of blame. If you have, and they weren't your fault, then they deduce that you must live in an area where the other people drive like idiots. They then class you as a higher risk, assuming that somebody else in your area is likely to crash into you, and that you might need to claim on your insurance because of it (for instance, if they destroyed your car, but didn't own up to it, and were never caught). Like all insurance companies, Diamond is just a money machine. They don't care about you, your well-being, or getting you a cheaper quote. That is all just an advertising ploy to get women to sign up.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/08 18:59:58.

It is interesting that for a long time it was only myself and Paul arguing, then along came Robbo. Now it appears there are loads of people here arguing, all against me. This is why i wonder if someone is making these people up.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/08 21:56:18.

Well I only found this list because I wondered about why in the Shielas advert the car went backward some of the time here is my search
"
sheilas car insurance advert car backward
"
place that in google and this thread is 5th from the top
so i am an idividual not just one of those bot thingys

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/08 23:14:25.

hehehe and a drunk idividual at that :)

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/08 23:15:40.

I have just put that into google and this site was absolutely nowhere to be seen Paul, Robbo, or whoever you really are.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/09 12:05:09.

Yes, Holly, that's right. It's very interesting that the computers which are connected together to make this huge, worldwide network called the internet are actually controlled by people, and that some of them may actually come across this website. Fascinating, in fact.

I just Googled what Jay said to, and this website is fifth from the top, entitled 'Diamond Car Insurance - Maison de Stuff'. So, am I lying, or are you just too stupid to know how to do a Google search? As for not existing, I wonder the same about you every time I come here - it beggars belief that any real person can be so utterly ignorant and arrogant. Whether you exist or not, I think I speak for most people here when I say that I wish you didn't.

Oh, and I found another woman who thinks cheaper car insurance for women is sexist. Just follow this:

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Sheila_s_wheels__Review_5591005

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/09 02:04:10.

I notice that Holly is detracting from my post. Perhaps she has nothing to say about the FACT that Dimand and the likes are ripping her and other women off.

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/09 02:07:01.

Just to add. I am not Robbo, Jay or anyone else... I am Paul and always have been.

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/09 02:08:02.

Ah well you know what they say - Ignorance is bliss let Holly live in hollyworld where the sky is green and the trees are blue

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/09 14:37:21.

Oh yeah just so by the way does anyone know why the car goes backwards in the advert??
No-one seems to know whether there is an actual reason or whther it was just a cheap ad

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/09 17:44:58.

I have typed the search in google again and fipund nothing. You are already proven liars, because you say men are better drivers, and the facts are against this viewpoint, so why wouldn't you lie about something else.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/09 20:54:17.

Holly, Lets face it, your not very vood with computers are you!

As far as I am concerned, this debate is finished. I have total proved that Women only insurance companies are a complete rip off and it seems that the only thing Holly can argue about now is how incapable she is at searching for something in google.

Once again for the cheap seats and for those that find it hard to take in information (Holly) Read this, you've been had!

www.visual-interactive.co.uk/insurance

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/09 21:53:13.

Poor, stupid Holly. Can't even manage to use Google, let alone participate in an adult, rational debate. I really shouldn't mock you - after all, it isn't your fault that you're 'special' (I'm sure that's what your mother told you when you were little). Why don't you go and ask your husband (if indeed you are married) to do it for you?

Jay, perhaps the reason the car goes backwards in the Sheila's Wheels advert is because the company is owned by the HBOS group, which is controlled mainly (eleven of the fourteen directors) by men. Maybe even they don't believe the bullshit claims they bang out, and put the car going backwards into the adverts to covertly make this statement.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/09 22:24:31.

Holly dont fret you are after all only a female

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/10 12:28:13.

And this is what it all boils down to. If Holly and women like her find such things in life so complicated and difficult to do, how can we as men accept that women bost to be better, safer drivers? With every word you type Holly, you just make this statement even more concrete.

Now please just go to www.visual-interactive.co.uk/insurance and accept once and for all that you and all women like you that preffer to go to these women only insurance companies are being completly and utterly ripped off!

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/10 12:47:45.

All you prove Paul is that with diamond women can get cheaper car insurance than men, and that women get cheaper car insurance than men anyway. Stupid little boy.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/10 13:17:26.

Holly re-read the link that Paul provided you will see that it is cheaper for men from mainstream providers
Women = £323.40
Men = £295.05

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/10 14:29:53.

PS Holly please also see :
Comment 249 on this forum

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/10 14:55:44.

For your delight Holly, I have now added quotes from Halifax (Who own Sheila's Wheels by-the-way) and Direct Line. As you will see, both quotes are cheaper for men like for like.

Conclusion Holly. Thats it as far as I am concerned. Womnen do NOT get cheaper insurance and thats a proven FACT. And i also conclude that as men get cheaper insurance, they must be better and safer drivers than women! So i suggest you get used to it you stupid little girl.

www.visual-interactive.co.uk/insurance

Posted by Stupid little boy. at 2006/09/10 16:17:22.

hehe dont see the point Paul its painfully obvious that holly cant read :)

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/10 17:58:43.

Well i dont believe it. Holly has nothing more to say. Well i guess that us men have won! We are better and safer. Thats why we get cheaper insurance!

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/11 19:19:21.

Well I never a woman whom has nothing to say I would be gobsmacked if I wasn't typing lol

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/12 01:46:10.

Well Hollys' first post was on Wednesday 13 October 04. I just cannot believe it has taken this long for her to finally understand that men are better, safer drivers and for her to STFU.

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/12 06:02:14.

LOL Lets see if we can spend the next 2 years boasting how well we did it! ROFL

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/12 06:03:25.

Wrong again Paul, you haven't won and never will because it is clear that you are an exception. The FACTS prove that on average women get cheaper insurance than men. Clearly there will be exceptions, you are a minority.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/12 20:19:25.

OK, What makes me the exception then Holly? Please tell us.

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/12 22:02:16.

You are an exception because you are one of the few male drivers who drive properly and gets cheaper car insurance. Most are boy racers with really high insurance to pay!!!!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/13 16:07:44.

Again Holly shows complete ignorance.
Holly let me if I can spell this out at a level that you may comprehend.
Boy racer = blokes between the age 17-25
Male drivers who drive properly = blokes between the age 25 - 65 (more than an exception few I would say)
Male drivers who are crap = blokes between the age 65-85
Women drivers = women between the age 21 - 85 All cant drive properly

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/13 17:18:02.

To re-iterate the point above how many racing car drivers are women?????????????????????/

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/14 01:25:45.

The truth will point to itself :)

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/15 12:02:29.

Exception my arse Holly. You are just trying to worm out of this now and it aint working!

Just face it. You have lost the argument. Men are better and safer drivers than women and I have proved it.

Get used to that fact!

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/15 08:23:05.

Well yet again!, I dont believe it. Holly has nothing more to say. Well i guess that us men have won! We are better and safer. Thats why we get cheaper insurance!

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/16 10:45:33.

Ah well holly are you fit?

Posted by Jay at 2006/09/17 12:20:03.

Even though the facts show women get cheaper insurance.

Posted by Holly at 2006/09/17 10:57:05.

Guess she isn't fit, then.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/09/17 24:26:41.

Thats right Holly, even though the facts show men get cheaper insurance, you still continue argue about it. I think this is an incredible phenomenon. In fact i have a theory...

I think that you live in a parallel universe where women are better drivers than men and for some reason your universe has a small opening that has merged with our universe. I think you realise that in this universe, on our world men are better, safer drivers and thats what the facts show here!

Both me and Jay think you are hot, sexy and are probably not getting satisfied by your husband! If you wan't multiple orgasms and sex like you have never had before, just let us know and both me and Jay will sort it out for you honey, OK

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/18 10:16:16.

Holly, nothing to say? You do supprise me.

Posted by Paul at 2006/09/28 23:27:37.

Well Ladies and Gents. To conclude.

I have now successfully proved that womens only insurance companies are a complete rip off and that women that have signed up with them should cancel their policies and search for cheaper car insurance elswhere.

This is undesputed as you will tell by the fact that no one has posted a comment for the past month or so.

Many thanks for all your imput.

Regards,

Paul

Posted by Paul at 2006/10/17 22:44:54.

I'm not interested in arguing, all i am interested in is knowing who the women are in the diamond adverts. I know about sarah cawood, but can anyone tell me the names of other women who have taken part in diamond adverts.

Posted by Nigel at 2006/10/31 16:18:59.

Why? Are you going to buy a shotgun and do the decent thing? If so, please try and get all those blokes who 'star' in the Sheila's Wheels adverts as well.

Posted by mrobbo at 2006/10/31 22:41:19.

I don't really see the problem here. Women get cheaper car insurance than men. So what? I am 28, my wife is 24. I have been driving 4 years longer than her, and we both have never made a claim. Despite this, since she has been 20 she has always gained a cheaper premium than me. That has increased now to about 220 pounds less than me. Do i have a problem, no. I drive a more powerful car, drive double the mileage that she does, and always drive on holidays. This is the main reason why she costs less than me.
Finally, the majority of our population are either married or in a relationship. Can't we be pleased for the ladies that they get cheaper car insurance normally. They must deserve it.

Posted by A different Paul at 2006/11/04 20:58:19.

here's a funny story for you. I just got married 2 days ago and my wife put me on her insurance as a named driver. Her premium was reduced, yes reduced by £106. Not only do I have a more expensive car than her but i get cheaper insurance and now she does because of me... So I guess yes, your right, I am pleased she does have cheaper car insurance (because of me!)

Posted by Paul at 2006/11/06 21:16:35.

I rang diamond and asked them if they would insure me, a young 19 year old male driver. They said they would, but that i wouldn't get the same price as a woman the same as me. They said my rate would be delibarately inflated so that the more money i spend means thay can afford to give a woman a discounted rate. I believe this is slight sexism, but never mind.

Posted by Daniel at 2006/12/02 20:56:35.

I went onto sheilas wheels and put in my details as a man and a woman. As a man i came up at 250 pounds, whilst as a woman i was 199 pounds. So they do victimise you simply on gender

Posted by Daniel at 2006/12/13 19:40:50.

If you look at statistics, men drive 3x more than women and only have 66% of road accidents.
For women to be better drivers, men would have to have 75%+

So really men are statistically better drivers.

However im not gunnu argue I completely agree with this post! its completely true

Posted by Possum at 2007/01/16 16:50:28.

These companies are still at it and seemingly always will be. Women are an easy target, and people like Holly seem to enjoy them if just for the advertising

Posted by Daniel at 2007/01/24 18:12:53.

i think every one needs to fight diamond car insurance if you agree email me on:

YUP10@hotmail.co.uk

Posted by robert at 2007/01/29 17:48:05.

Basically, once the age of 30 has been reached, insurance for the sexes tends to even out. What Diamond quite rightly do is highlight the more risky driving of young male drivers, eg those men aged 17-25. Previously, women had to pay more so young men could pay less. Even worse, women in their 40's would be paying more to compensate for silly little boys carelessness.
Now, young men pay the full amount. This usually runs into thousands of pounds, but it is about time they started paying for their mistakes. Thanks to diamond, women pay a rate which rewards their safer, more mature driving.
More bad news for the boys is that the gap is getting bigger, so unless they start driving sensible, they will pay more and more.

Posted by Zoe at 2007/02/09 20:48:00.

"What Diamond quite rightly do is highlight the more risky driving of young male drivers ..."

Yes, but what about all of the men who aren't dangerous drivers? Why should they pay more than women who drive at the same standard? The simple fact is that it is totally wrong to charge one person more than another because they belong to a particular group. Rather than the emphasis falsely being on women paying for men, shouldn't the emphasis be on safe drivers (male and female) having to pay more for unsafe ones (male and female)?

Car insurance for men and women should start at exactly the same amount. The men that are supposedly the worst drivers will have more accidents and get more points. If the idea of men being the worst drivers is true, then their insurance premiums will rise accordingly to an amount more than that paid by women. However, those men who are safe drivers would not be unfairly punished or discriminated against.

But, of course, there are problems with this. Firstly, the greedy insurance companies would take a loss in profit by not unfairly punishing safe male drivers, and by having dangerous drivers die selfishly in crashes without having their premium raised. As we all know, our rights mean nothing when money is thrown into the equation.

The second problem is that there will be a female backlash, since so many insecure women will be robbed of an opportunity to gloat over men in one of the few areas where they actually feel equal.

So, the situation isn't going to change any time soon, and men will continue to be treated like second-class citizens. All of this, in spite of the fact that it is men who work the longest, and contribute the most in taxes (and pay the insurance companies the most by driving the most). What an awesome country.

Posted by Robbo at 2007/02/18 11:56:13.

I'm back! Here to talk to you about ladybird insurance, who have started adverts on sky TV. Why is it that Fresh insurance, who also own First, created for the more risky, more expensive male driver, decided to advertise their female only company? Surely they cannot be more interested in gaining the custom of women over men. Why would they want to do this? Are you sure it has nothing to do with the fact that us girls have less accidents, less expensive accidents, drink and drive less than men, and are statistically the safer sex? Surely not!

Posted by Holly at 2007/04/02 16:02:10.

"Are you sure it has nothing to do with the fact that us girls have less accidents, less expensive accidents, drink and drive less than men, and are statistically the safer sex? Surely not!"

Are you sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you girls drive thousands of miles less than men, own cheaper cars, and have considerably less of a presence in jobs where driving plays a major part? Surely not!

Given that all of the above factors make the conditions under which men and women drive so radically different, how can any right-minded person not find these 'statistics' laughable?

The company you refer to advertises for women because it knows they are more likely to be swayed by the adverts. After all, cosmetic companies don't spend billions of pounds trying to sell washing up liquid to men as shampoo (with 'hydro-nano-plasma' technology, mind you).

In any event, your car insurance definitely isn't cheaper than mine, since I don't pay anything for it. My company pays for it all - in spite of me being an arrogant, drunken, accident-prone road-hog of a man. Or, could it possibly be that I'm none of those things? Surely not!

Posted by Robbo at 2007/04/02 23:27:02.

I have't read all these comments but have seen the advert in question and am obviously aware of the company involved. I am in fact insured under sheilas wheels. As i am a woman i couldn't say how offensive these adverts are to men. All i can say is that diamond will not refuse to insure you just becuase you are male. So if any of you males feel left out, then ring up and get a quote! I do agree with Robbo to a certain extent that women are an easy target. However, personally i always check every insurer for a quote.
As for the better driving gender. This is simply a question that will never be answered. However, here are some thoughts. If you make up a person and get a quote from an insurance company online you will find that for over 40's the gap is usually around 10 -20 quid in favour of women. In the younger ages the gap is bigger, whilst teenegers see a gap of 300+ in favour of the girls. It must be said that any gap is usually very small. This information was found using exactly the same person, just changing the mr and mrs. I used churchill insurance. There can be little denying that women do slightly better in the insurance battle.
However, it must be considered that men drive much more than women and so on.
Basically, i cannot help you at all!

Posted by Katie at 2007/04/05 15:16:13.

I can solve this whole whos the better driver arguement, Im a bloke ive been driving 6 years on both car and motorcycle, ive been involved in four accidents none caused by me:
The first accident was caused on the motorway when traffic came to a sudden holt so i put on my hazzards and slow down. not 10 secounds later a car slams into the back of me at 70 mph luckly i had a rally spec roll cage (i was based in germany and went on the ring during my days off) so i escaped with some major brusing and a couple of cracked ribs, and suprisingly the driver was a women and her excuse was she was talking to her boy friend on the phone lets just say i sued her arse :)
2nd accident happened at a junction in a 40mph section with turns for left, right and straight on. Three veichles at a junction so i turned my headlights of my bike on to improve people seeing me and yet again the bloody women pulled out on me resulting in me having a flying lesson and a trip to hospital.
third accident in town on a new bike driving along came round a courner to find a blond bimbo other taking so i took a trip through her wind screen,
fourth accident on a motorway in the morning i noticed a arrgesive driver that tried under taking the car infront , but got stuck by a van in the middle lane so she waited for the guy in front to pass but she was driving a bigg 4x4 and went in behind me but misjugded he size taking the back wheel of my bike out causing me to slide on my back across a busy motor way and into a hedge near the hard shoulder and when the policeman asked her why she hit me her excuse was she was late for work and had to do her make up while driving resulting in a lovely compensation claim for my.
recomendations spada sniper one peice suit good abrasion on tarmac,
roll cage if you value your live with women driving 4x4.
allso guess what i have no marks on my claims bonus as i claimed of their insurance so im paying only £20 a month for my bike and £90 for my car and im only23 yeahs old and both are performances 600cc and a v6 turbo
i hope that proves men are better drivers and that women shouldnt drive 4x4

Posted by paul the third at 2007/04/06 19:48:56.

Yes Robbo, some men may be paying more when they don't deserve to, but is this any less fair than me paying more to cover young boys mistakes. If young men make mistakes it makes most sense to pass some of the bill over to older men, not across the gender divide. Whether you like it or not, diamond will ensure the latter never happens.

Posted by Zoe at 2007/04/12 20:15:45.

Zoe, why do you consider sex discrimination to be so much more acceptable than other forms? Why not force all young drivers (girls and boys) to pay more instead? Since the insurance premium gap evens out with age, isn't it fair to say that wreckless driving is as much an age issue as a gender one?

As keen as the women who frequent this site are to point out the fairness of female car insurance being cheaper, I expect that they are the first ones to kick off about women getting paid less. Well, girls, you are STATISTICALLY more likely to get pregnant and take time off work because of it than men. Since April 1, 2007, women are entitled to 52 weeks off, with 39 of them paid at 90% and the remainder at a fixed rate. So, why shouldn't companies (which exist to make money, by the way) pull back some of these costs, as well as the burden of having to pay somebody to fill in, by paying all women less? And what if you never have kids (or a car crash, for that matter)? Well, that's just tough luck. After all, we have to consider the statistics.

Before the nauseating claims of women being the victims of tyrannical male slave-traders start getting made, I would like to point out that the previous argument is no more arrogant or prejudicial than the ones thrown around by women in justification of their cheaper insurance. In any event, women are welcome to their cheaper car insurance. If I paid for my own, the 20% more I get paid than the average women in my industry would more than cover it.

Posted by Robbo at 2007/04/13 00:02:01.

Robbo, the only thing to worry about at the end of the day is who gets cheaper car insurance. The answer is undeniably women. That's what this is about, nothing else, and women win. Just face it, women get cheaper car insurance than men! Why? Becuase women are better drivers than men! It's a fact.

Posted by Zoe at 2007/04/13 22:44:35.

The only fact here is that you, like most women, are too arrogant, stupid, or insecure, to realise (or admit) that skills and abilities are unique to each individual, and based on a wider range of factors than which sex they were born a member of.

The statistics you girls are so fond of show that most serious crashes involve men, not that most men are involved in serious crashes (you do actually understand the difference, don't you, Zoe? I have my doubts).

There is no more justification for assuming men will crash, and punishing them all just in case, than there is for assuming Muslims are terrorists, and jailing them all just in case.

But we've been over this time and time again. You will never admit that the causes of good driving are related to more than just sex (and that members of both can be good at it), since you have a vested interest in the claim that women are better (ie, you are one, and you're so desperate to prove yourself in some way). So, I may as well go down to my local zoo, climb into the monkey pit, and discuss the matter with its simian inhabitants, rather than waste my time with you.

Posted by Robbo at 2007/04/14 05:42:22.

Diamond do insure men, whoever says they don't is wrong. Likewise, sheilas wheels will insure men. The reason that men are unlikely to join them is that men rarely have any use for handbag cover!

Posted by Debbie at 2007/05/07 17:36:51.

higuys!What yourblog powered by?

Posted by aarst at 2007/05/11 01:26:31.

Thank you to the Diamond representative above for finally deciding to make their position on this issue clear.

Diamond are sexiest.

Posted by blp at 2007/05/15 16:05:03.

Lads, i hope you enjoy watching the new sheilas wheels adverts, on air from tonight. It is a timely reminder to you all that the women only insurers are going stronger than ever, providing insurance for Britains best drivers, women!

Posted by Holly at 2007/05/22 16:44:50.

Hi guys, unfortunately i am a bit like the type of driver diamond make men out to be. I have a few convictions, drive fast and make regular claims. However, this is where i use diamond to my advantage. My wife has a clean record, so for my car, i'm a named driver on her policy, which actually reduces the premium. So diamond is cheaper for me, and i'm a man!

Posted by Bill at 2007/05/24 14:33:37.

Holly.

You're a beautiful woman possibly but you're a classic example of the inverse ratio between the size of the brain and the size of the mouth.

It's no wonder I shag blokes.

Posted by Billy at 2007/05/28 20:55:03.

Placed to bookmark!

Posted by Spencer at 2007/06/04 12:02:37.

its pathetic it should b on the drivers skills, i am in my opinion a very good driver but i just got quoted 2 insure my "98 1.3lr ford fiesta" a small slow car and was quoted an extra grand then if i was a women

Posted by michael at 2007/06/12 22:47:14.

Well Michael, what can I say? You are paying for the driving mistakes of your fellow gender! You paying more means girls like me get to pay much less. The women of today are ensuring the new younger female drivers of tomorrow are still paying much less for car insurance!

Posted by Holly at 2007/06/13 15:35:22.

Yes, Holly, that's right. Men will just sit back and put up with this sexist crap. Too many men nowadays (myself included) just love rocking the gender boat, and actively look for issues in which they can complain about sexism. I'm proud to say that I've had various complaints upheld in and out of work, and I hope to have many more successes in future.

The fact of the matter is, Holly, that Sheila's Wheels and Diamond adverts will eventually be pulled for being the sexist filth they really are. As more and more women move into jobs which require them to drive just as much as men, they will have more crashes, and the claims of female driving superiority will be invalid anyway. Far from the future being the same, Holly, the likes of you may just have to put up a considerably more equal status in this matter than the one you currently revel in.

Posted by Robbo at 2007/06/17 18:41:32.

I'm all for equality and fairness. Fairness means people get what they deserve. I deserve to pay less for my car insurance becuase I am a woman, and statistics show that i am less of a risk. Fact

Posted by Holly at 2007/06/18 17:18:00.

You can 'prove' anything with statistics, Holly. The way in which you have 'proved' (in your own mind, at least) that women are the better drivers by quoting the statistics which suit your purposes, but completely ignoring the ones which state that women spend less time driving less miles in different vehicles, both at work and in their own time, is a testament to this fact. Oddly enough, businesses (which is what Diamond is, Holly, in case you hadn't noticed) and the media do this every day to get what they want (like women buying their car insurance).

And no, Holly, you aren't in favour of equality or fairness. Like most women, you're in favour of equal rights - ie, all the good bits of being a man, but none of the bad ones.

I do hope you get what you deserve, Holly. Suffice to say, my idea of what you deserve is probably completely different to yours.

Posted by Robbo at 2007/06/21 00:24:00.

I was nearly made an orphan by a woman smahing head on into my parents mini while over-tajing on double white lines. Safe drivers? don't make me laugh.

Posted by sexist wheels at 2007/08/21 21:07:24.

Hello, nice site look this:

End ^) See you

Posted by Bill at 2007/08/22 12:19:28.

Holly your obviously a grade a narrow minded piece of shit. i had my girlfriend of 15 years die because she wasnt paying attention on the road, i had my best friend and his daughter killed by a woman who was putting her lipstick on as she joind a motorway for fucksake ive never crashed yet shit woman drivers probably like you get to drive around with cheaper car insurance because there are less of you on the road doing less miles than men, yes there are some young males who take the piss and should never be aloud to drive in the first place but in my experiance woman are no better than men at driving.

Posted by John at 2007/10/23 20:00:44.

I've recently been helping my boyfriend get car insurance. He is being victimised for other peoples mistakes. In the end I rang up diamond and got his car insured in my name for a lot less than it would be for him to be a main driver. That is ridiculous.
I don't see why companies can't give cheaper car insurance based on individual merit. Instead, most say,"We will save you 30% for being a woman." Insulting men will not win womens minds

Posted by Kelci at 2007/11/11 19:46:07.

Your opinion on this is influenced by how much you are affected by it. I am the father of 3 daughters. When my eldest began to drive, we had agreed to insure her with Norwich Union. She then read an advert in a magazine about diamond. Typically, the mocking of male drivers attracted her even more. Diamond provided her with a fantastic quote. So for me it is an advantage. If I would have had 3 sons, I would be furious with diamond. I will always maintain that men make the better drivers, not necessarily safer, but better.

Posted by Ray at 2007/12/09 18:55:51.

I think you should take a look at this ....

www.voiceyourconcerns.co.uk

Posted by bobby at 2008/01/27 16:18:26.

National Transportation Safety Board recently divulged they had funded a project with the US auto makers for the past five years. The NTSB covertly funded a project whereby the auto makers were installing black boxes in four wheel drive pickup trucks in an effort to determine, in fatal accidents, the circumstances in the last 15 seconds before the crash.

They were surprised to find in 49 of the 50 states the last words of drivers in 61.2% of fatal crashes were, "Oh, Shit!"

Only the state of Texas was different, where 89.3% of the final words were, "Hey Y'all, hold my beer and watch this!"

Posted by Britney at 2008/02/23 22:19:07.

National Transportation Safety Board recently divulged they had funded a project with the US auto makers for the past five years.

Posted by John at 2008/02/26 17:51:44.

I think it depends on the person, but it's wrong that woman get cheaper insurance. I think a man would be able to get himself out of a situation ie put the brakes on and steer out the way. Where as a woman would pull out only when it is safe. I think sometimes a woman can be safer or a man can depending on the situation. But everyone should have the same start point and premiums loaded if they speed or have an accident.

Posted by Ben.S at 2008/03/16 15:29:21.

Other adverts that annoy me are the tampax adverts. Again, the opportunity to mock men is taken up just because the product is for females.

Posted by John at 2008/03/29 21:43:48.

As an 18 year old male I rang around everyone. Sheilas wheels' website refused to offer me a quote, claiming it was my age. I proceeded to change three of my details. I changed my name to Sarah, my title to miss and my gender to female. Surprisingly I was still rejected. This leaves me to wonder, will Sheilas wheels only insure middle aged female drivers? If so, no onder they can claim women to be safer drivers. This type of driver drives less than their male counterparts and with less powerful cars. I think sheilas wheels and Diamond benefit only the middle aged female driver.

Posted by Dave at 2008/07/03 20:33:39.

Do diamond still advertise on the London underground?

Posted by Frank at 2008/07/11 21:06:08.

Èíòåðíåò-ìàãàçèí ïðîèçâîäèò ïðîäàæó âèàãðû,ëåâèðû,ñèàëèñà. Çàêàç ïðîèçâîäèòñÿ
íåïîñðåäñòâåííî íà ñàéòå. Äîñòàâêà îñóùåñòâëÿåòñÿ êóðüåðîì èç-ðóê-â-ðóêè ïî
Ñ-Ïåòåðáóðãó, Êèåâó è Ìîñêâå, à òàêæå äîñòàâêà ïî÷òîé ïî âñåé òåððèòîðèè Ðîññèè.
Íèêàêîé ïðåäîïëàòû - îïëàòà ïðè ïîëó÷åíèè.
Ñàéò ìàãàçèíà viagrawam.narod.ru


Ìûëî äëÿ ñâÿçè viagragood@yandex.ru

Posted by SpiritMan at 2010/01/04 18:12:10.

Èíòåðíåò-ìàãàçèí ïðîèçâîäèò ïðîäàæó âèàãðû,ëåâèðû,ñèàëèñà. Çàêàç ïðîèçâîäèòñÿ
íåïîñðåäñòâåííî íà ñàéòå. Äîñòàâêà îñóùåñòâëÿåòñÿ êóðüåðîì èç-ðóê-â-ðóêè ïî
Ñ-Ïåòåðáóðãó, Êèåâó è Ìîñêâå, à òàêæå äîñòàâêà ïî÷òîé ïî âñåé òåððèòîðèè Ðîññèè.
Íèêàêîé ïðåäîïëàòû - îïëàòà ïðè ïîëó÷åíèè.
Ñàéò ìàãàçèíà viagrawam.narod.ru


Ìûëî äëÿ ñâÿçè viagragood@yandex.ru

Posted by SpiritMan at 2010/01/05 16:23:16.

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