Diamond Car Insurance

Posted on 2002/02/25 13:04:33 (February 2002) by john.

Now this really gets my goat...


Anyone who's been on the tube, and, like me, usually forgets to take anything to read, will usually end up staring at the adverts. In my case, not such a great plan. There's one particular advert, for "Diamond Car Insurance", that really winds me up. The basic idea is that it's a company that only insures women, and offers them far cheaper car insurance than men have to pay. This opens up a whole can of worms of discrimination issues for me. I've included a picture of the offending article - it's a little blurry but you should just about be able to make out the text.

Before I attack this, it is important to point out that I am in no way a chauvinist (although my comments will probably be misinterpreted by some as chauvinism) or an anything else "ist" - I utterly believe in equal opportunities for absolutely everyone, without exception. In fact, that is the root of my argument. Firstly, there's the statement on the advert "Apparently, Diamond save money for women because they're better drivers." What do they actually mean by better drivers? This can not be presented as a straight fact without either putting it into a specific context, or backing it up with statistics. If they had said "in an independant driving test taken by 1000 women and 1000 men the women, on average, performed better", that would be fine. Or, for example "women statistically have fewer accidents" would be fine too (provided it is true of course) or "annually women in the UK claim less from insurance companies", would be even better - particularly as it highlights a lot more plainly the root these companies' reasoning. Do they think the "women are better drivers" is OK because it is in part guarded by an "Apparently"? It still seems to me that they are presenting this as a straight fact. Without any qualification, it is purely an opinion, and needs to be identified as such. Where are the advertising standards agency on this one?

At my graduation ceremony, the vice-chancellor was giving a speech about some of the work done by the university over the past year or two. Amongst other things he was talking about how the psychology department had been conducting experiments on how the male and female brains reacted when exposed to stressful situations, particularly those encountered whilst driving. The researchers (and may I point out it was a mixed team of professional and open minded men and women) concluded that the male brain was naturally slightly better at coping with these situations given certain circumstances. This proven scientific fact was received by booing from the female members of the audience in the ceremony. Yet we tolerate Diamond's advert with its completely unjustified, unqualified and unproven statement that women are better drivers. Not only does this demonstrate how unprofessional Diamond are being, but also the double standards. Given the booing received by a very prominant member of my university upon presenting simple scientific fact, it is easy to guess the kind of reception that an analagous advert claiming men to be better drivers would receive from women.


Next, there's the taunting of men in the advert. The one pictured is just one example from a series. Most of them tend to depict men attempting to dress up as women in order to get cheaper car insurance. This is really waving the injustice of insurance discrimination in the face and deliberately trying to offend men with it. What kind of advertising is this? Isn't this also offending transvestites? Making a mockery of something that is extremely natural to some people. Would this kind of blatant taunting be tolerated if it was directed at women, or ethnic minorities? Of course it wouldn't be (and neither should it be). It feels to me like the company is trying to be deliberately devisive, in an attempt to separate women from men further, presumably because this will make women more likely to buy things from companies ran exclusively for women, like, oh, Diamond. These stupid, selfish people are trying to take society in exactly the opposite way to how it should be going. Shouldn't we be trying to integrate and harmonise social groupings together, rather than attempting to pull them further apart? We're all human beings, after all.

Overall, my problem with Diamond is possibly a broader one - prejudice in insurance and the fact that it seems totally tolerated by most people, purely because it is (allegedly) backed up by some statistics. Myself, as an individual young male, I might actually be the safest driver in the world, but simply because I share physical characteristics with people otherwise completely unconnected to me, that have in the past had more accidents, I am deemed unsafe. Why should I have to pay for mistakes of other people? Why should I be disadvantaged for the actions of others? If someone produced statistics that shorter people had more accidents than taller people, would society accept charging shorter people more for their car insurance? Of course not. If there were statistics saying Africans were less reliable at paying off debts than Europeans, would we as a society allow banks to automatically refuse people from Africa mortgages? Of course not (well certainly I wouldn't anyway). Would we refuse renting a house to a German because they're more likely to start a war with us (and statistically, looking back over history, they are)?
This is obviously both ludicrous and totally wrong. In America, there is a higher proportion of black people than white people in prison (which is almost certainly an injustice in itself). Does this mean upon meeting an individual black person we should consider them more likely to be a criminal? No, no, no, and no. All of this just goes to show how rediculous (and in my opinion immoral) it is trying to justify anything with statistics.

Everyone has to be seen as an individual, and this has to apply universally - it simply is not acceptable to make exceptions. We should all be equal. There should be absolutely no assumptions made about me as an individual, or anyone else, based on purely physical characteristics.

I have to agree. I am well aware of Diamond's evil ways. I have three points.



One. As an investor, I want a company that insures the whole range of drivers. Dangerous drivers keep the premium up for all and good drivers rarely ask for a return so are a good investment. In all, a well balanced company works well.



Two. These adverts very rarely state how the evidence was gathered. Statistics is the art of proving what you want to prove. How were the drivers selected, randomly or out of demographic groups? Given that there are 10 demographic groups (on average) and two sexes, that makes 20 different classes. 2000 data points on 20 different classes is not very much, about 100 per class. Given humans are a right difficult bunch, 100 points is poor on a stick. Given that there are 60 million people in this country, 2000 sample size is only 0.00003% of uk drivers. Not very good is it? 2000 sounds like a lot, but when it comes to people, 2000 is nothing.



Three. John, you don't own a car, can you drive one? This shows your extreme sensitivity to sexism.



Good posting, though, made me laugh. Especially the bit about renting out to Germans.

Posted by Rob Lang at 2002/03/05 17:16:39.

This is all very well John, and I agree it is sexist although I do think that women statistically have fewer accidents than men. However, insurance is full of 'isms': sexism is one, where-you-live-ism is another, but the biggest is ageism. Now that I'm (ahem) nearly 30 (shuddup Rob) my premiums are really quite low indeed. But I'm a no better driver than I was a year ago. In fact, I'm probably worse having spent much of the last year charging around off road for work. Some poor 19 year old, male or female, has a nightmare in comparison, wth enormous premiums for the diddiest of cars. At the other end of the scale you have our beloved grandmother, god rest her soul, who drove everywhere in first gear and had a tendency to leave her glasses at home. She had a premium of about 25p. So there's no justice in insurance. Live with it. In any case, I bet if you got some female friends to actually get quotes from Diamond they wouldn't be any different anyway. After deacdes of car advertising aimed purely at men I think its quite refreshing to have the Jimmy Choo on the other foot.

Posted by Alex at 2002/03/18 16:16:05.

I'm afraid I will have to agree with Alex on this one, Jonny boy. As a woman, I honestly believe that being able to get a lower priced insurance compared to a man of my age and driving experience is a form of discrimination. But even though I am a woman, being only 22 and having had my license for 4 years, the amount I will have to pay for car insurance is tons more than what older people have to pay. I think this stems from the belief that the older the person, the more experienced driver he/she is.
However, experience is not necessarily connected with age. For example, a 35-year old person who hasn't touched a car since he/she got their license is nowhere near as experienced as a 25-year old who has to drive to work everyday, but whose insurance premium is sky-high because of his/her young age. I don't know about other people, but to me that is not fair and is yet another form of discrimination. And yet, there is nothing we can do to prevent it.
However, given all the above, in the year 2000, the UK population consisted of 29 107 000 men and 29 963 000 women (800 000 more), of which 23 867 740 men and 17 977 800 women held full driving licenses respectively. Now, if you consider the fact that the number of car accidents were 203 340 caused by men and 107 583 caused by women, then by doing some simple maths, the percentage of men who have caused accidents is 0.85% compared to 0.59% for women. So, basically, statistically from data concerning the entire of the UK (so Rob won't complain about not being enough etc etc) women are indeed better drivers than men. . . Live with it!
(statistics from the DTLR page: http://www.transtat.dtlr.gov.uk/tables/2001/ragb/pdf/ragb01_2.pdf page 45. Population statistics: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/).

By the way, Phil also says that insurance companies are there to make money and if that means charging accident-prone drivers more, then so be it. . . Also, Diamond insurance lasts 10 months, rather than 12. So, less money for less time!

Posted by Nicoletta at 2002/04/22 24:33:26.

I'm afraid you statistics are a bit off, Nic.

How many car journeys were made by men and women last year?

I can guarentee that there were more miles driven by men than women, therefore there was more opportunity for men to crash. How many women Lorry drivers do you know?

How do I know this? Even the DTLR are a bit cagey about their Stats: they do not offer semantics, just the numbers. Stats can be interpreted however the reader suggests. You're a woman, you'll interpret them from a biased viewpoint, I would do the same.
However, Stats are Stats, purely numbers and unless the process itself is unbiased (such as a purely mathematical one) you can not gauge enough information from them because they never tell the whole story. Why not? Well, how much information do you need to collect to have full understanding, especially when people are concerned?

You've gone off the point, Nic, in a vain attempt to write something interesting. Sexual discrimination is the point here, not who is a better driver. If you want to stick up for women in the future, Nic, it's best to have a rock-solid argument and be on the side of the women, otherwise, don't bother.

Posted by Rob Lang at 2002/04/23 10:49:46.

Are you some kind of pleb Rob? First you talk about being an investor in
insurance, then you say I have gone off the point because we should be
talking about sexual discrimination, something you didn't mention at
all. Make up your mind, lad.

As for having a rock-solid argument and being on the side of the women
or not bothering, if you had bothered to read what I wrote, you would
have seen that in sentence one I point out that I feel this is
discrimination. It isn't about taking the side of male or female, it's
about whether we feel it is right to discriminate at all. It is however
just an interesting aside that the stats seem favourable to women, if
you want to read something else into them fine, then it's a free country
. . .

At the end of the day, stats or no stats, discrimination is rife in this
day and age, and in some cases we just have to live with it. There is
such a thing as being too PC about it all. Where we draw the line
however is a matter for plentiful debate.

As an aside, have you considered that this may just be a marketing ploy
anyway? With Diamond's 'cheap insurance for women' only lasting 10
instead of 12 months, it may sound good, but probably doesn't work out
much better in the long run.

Well Rob, there is my 'vain attempt to write something interesting',
maybe you should try it sometime?

Posted by Nicoletta at 2002/05/14 10:15:05.

John you have hit the nail so many times in this one report....thank god someone is out there that can sum up how all us non-female people feel at the disadvantage of being cheated at the hands of these insurance twats!! I don't even care about the statistics. You cannot stereotype people in this day and age. I have no points and full no calims, never had a smash. Yet a woman who may have had a claim in the past would get better insurance than me? I am going to complain about this issue to everybody in power who can do something about it, and i won't stop until we we all get treated as individuals and as John said " why should we have to pay for the mistake of others'. Everybody should send as many e-mails and letters they can to complain about this injustice. DO NOT STOP!!!!

Posted by phil at 2003/01/21 19:52:41.

Women should not be allowed to drive, let alone be insured

Posted by neil kelly at 2003/01/22 17:01:13.

i cant drive yet, and im thinkin about not even botherin to get a licsence cuz its to fuckin expensive for young male drivers at an insurance standpoint, well hats it

Posted by Jrock at 2003/10/31 15:51:11.

If you want to have your voice heard on this matter call 0800 36 24 36 or visit www.diamond.co.uk. According to the latest diamond ad women deserve to pay less

Posted by sam at 2004/08/27 19:03:22.

I would like to know how women feel about diamond. When an advert comes on the screen what do they think. As for on the undergroud it is a right nuisance. You go on there and then find yourself reading about how women are better drivers and how they deserve to pay less. What do women think when they see this on the underground. I must also admit that even though it annoys me facts are facts and women are better drivers but do they have to wind up men in this way.

Posted by Martin at 2004/10/02 19:54:58.

It's good to see you wound up Martin. As a member of diamond I think they are great because i pay less for being a woman! The fact that they annoy men is irrelevant despite it being really funny watching my husband get wound up whenever an advert comes up

Posted by Holly at 2004/10/13 18:19:18.

Women are definately better drivers than men. Our claims cost less and we crash less often. Why can't men admit that we girls have beaten you in the driving department. Last year 98% of all convicted dangeroud drivers were men. So i think it is official women really are better drivers than men!!!

Posted by bekka at 2004/12/14 20:36:39.

thats not fair
being born a woman automatically gives cheaper car insurance?

seems that this company have categorized men and women

its just as bad as saying
white should people should get cheaper insurance

i think a big equality line has been crossed here

Posted by Steve at 2005/03/22 12:34:56.

Why can't men accept that women are better drivers? I think that women should pay less for being better at DRIVING. Also if you are so upset that diamond is created just for women why don't you create a company just for men?

Posted by Holly at 2005/03/30 13:17:10.

The diamond advert that gives me the problem was the one with Sarah cawood saying how women are better drivers. Sarah cawood gets to wind up men by advertising for diamond just because she is a woman. As i learn from my wife it's great for women but bad for men. The biggest act of sexism against men ever.

Posted by Paul at 2005/05/11 22:15:23.

My first thought upon seeing this ad. "What would happen if I were to start a business offering cheaper car insurance for men only?" Feminists would raise hell, thats what!

I'm sorry but I'm all about equality, I agree with all the points agains chauvinism and I understand fully how badly women have been treated in the past and in some cases still are. But we're making progress towards equality and I'd rather not see something like diamond car insurance swing the balance in the other direction, I can't think of anything more hypocritical.

Statistics or not, we are all indeviduals regardless of gender.

Posted by Gary at 2005/05/27 13:47:30.

Finally! Gary, you hit this topic on the head and it was about time that someone did too!
Well, thats probably because I agree with everything you say.

Maybe we should make a 'men only' insurance with the same rates as diamond. Compare the claims of the two companies, then, let the 'winner' make loads of annoying, offensive ads to the other sex (if you think somethings wrong with that, just look at the picture up there!).

I dont drive, yet. But I'm afriad when I do, that, insurers will give me a bad price, or, not insure me at all! Ok, I dont know how these companys "do their thing", but I know, as an 18 year old male, (I'll be 19 or 20 when I get my license) I'll be given a "boy racer" tag and thrown in the "no-hoper" category. I'll have have to prove I can drive responsibly until I'm 26 or something. That, or become asexual!

But, companys and (most importantly, in this case) adverts that do this "It's OK because it's just against men" have to stop. It really laughs in mens faces, I hate it!

Posted by Adam at 2005/06/26 11:59:54.

Any one who gets a lift from my mum will see just how agressive women drivers can be. We are all only human every one gets angry not just men.

Posted by Gavin at 2005/07/24 23:20:19.

Agree with the original argument. Was just talking about this with my father. The fundamental problem that i have is that using any kind of stereotype to discriminate in business is not acceptable. I understand that the insurance business thrives on statistics, but they take advantage of the fact that anti-male discrimination is still acceptable. I think that some women believe they have a right to positive discrimination as a result of historical imbalances, but positive discrimination towards women is sexism in my opinion. Quotas for women in parliament, targets for women in business, this whole modern concept of positive discrimination is wrong.

Consider for a moment a hypothetical statistic that black people are more likely to have accidents. I have no idea if this is true but it is irrelevant. If someone was to start a company offering white people cheaper insurance it would provoke a massive outrage. Same goes if someone started a men-only insurance company, it would not survive public opinion. Racism is rightfully socially unacceptable now, and chauvanism is becoming unacceptable. Maybe in a few years we will move beyond these anti-male times.

The problem is, in order to make the system fair and morally acceptable, insurance companies must be forced to ignore statistics and treat customers as individuals. This will not happen anytime soon and no one in government is willing to appear chauvanist.

As a side note, i have never seen solid arguments that women are better drivers, only biased statistics that are grounded in the fact that women drive FAR less than men and as a result have FAR less accidents. If i do see scientific arguments than i will concede that on average they are better, but i believe in treating people as individuals so this whole debate is thoroughly futile.

Posted by Cyrus at 2005/08/01 20:59:45.

I completely agree with this argument. I do not drive yet as I am only sixteen, but I found the sheer audacity of Diamond's advert insulting. Instead of bringing all of the various parts of society together, it seems to me that companies such as this wish to break what people have spent years building, for shear profit, it sickens me. Women have been campaigning for years for equality and fair treatment (something I am completely supportive of) but it seems that now some women feel that they are deserving of more than equality, which is complete hipocrisy. It appears that women can say whatever they want and get away with it, as they were opressed for so long, where as men will be persecuted for speaking their minds if it appears in any way sexist.
I do not see where the conflict arises, men and women are different clearly, but does that means one group is better than the other? I fell that society should be treating everyone as individuals not segregating them and regarding them differently due to their appearance, sex or race.

Posted by Ross at 2005/08/05 18:23:20.

I completely agree with this argument. I do not drive yet as I am only sixteen, but I found the sheer audacity of Diamond's advert insulting. Instead of bringing all of the various parts of society together, it seems to me that companies such as this wish to break what people have spent years building, for shear profit, it sickens me. Women have been campaigning for years for equality and fair treatment (something I am completely supportive of) but it seems that now some women feel that they are deserving of more than equality, which is complete hipocrisy. It appears that women can say whatever they want and get away with it, as they were opressed for so long, where as men will be persecuted for speaking their minds if it appears in any way sexist.
I do not see where the conflict arises, men and women are different clearly, but does that means one group is better than the other? I fell that society should be treating everyone as individuals not segregating them and regarding them differently due to their appearance, sex or race.

Posted by Ross at 2005/08/05 18:24:09.

i would just like to say that Diamond car insurance does sound sexist even if women a better drivers the reasons why men may not be good acording to the rumours may be men like a bit of a challenge sometimes but this is not my point.
My point as ross has pointed out is how it severs relations between men and women sometimes when people have small accidents it is not worth pointing it out
Men are also good drivers aswell take Top gear for insurance it shows the tv presenter driving and talking this goes against stereotyping becasue when i attended school the teacher always kept saying men cant do two things at once

Posted by lynn at 2005/08/12 14:18:15.

Cars are a hazard to the enviroment, i think it would be better if we found a cleaner and safer form of transport. This way diamond will go out of business and men and women can go to war on another trivial issue.

P.S. legalise marijuana

Posted by Gavin at 2005/08/13 16:51:23.

Cars are filthy dirty death traps that are destroying the enviroment, this whole debate could be resolved by developing a cleaner safer form of transport. Diamond would go out of business and men and women could go to war on another trivial(if annoying) issue.

Posted by Gavin at 2005/08/13 16:55:45.

I am a woman, admittedly I can't drive yet (even though I'm 20 ::blush::) and I find Diamond terribly sexist. On principle I think "insurance for [insert social group here]" is simply a bad idea regardless of statistics.

Posted by Grace at 2005/08/19 24:25:23.

I'll say it again that facts do not lie. I have many friends who are men and many who are women. We are all under 30 and all my female friends are better drivers than the men. Diamond are great if you are a girl like me but men should just ignore and forget it. All you are doing is giving me great pleasure because i don't care about being a better driver than a man but you boys have to be better than us girls- and you are not!!! I think it's true about there only being one way to be a good driver - Be born a woman!!

Posted by Holly at 2005/08/24 19:05:35.

I believe that this is complete sexism, I also believe that racism is just as bad as sexism. Can you imagine the uproar if I set up a insurance company saying, White people statistically have less car crashes than black people, therefore we are only allowing white people to use our company. Quite rightly there would be a backlash of complaints and righly so, so why is it Diamond are allowed to do the same thing! Companies should not segregate people because of their sex! Something needs to be done about this, sexism isn't tolerated against women and it should not be tolerated agains men!

Posted by Terry at 2005/09/07 18:40:24.

Can i end this argument now. Women are better drivers than men. That is a fact. Ha to all men and long live diamond, the best car insurance company created JUST for BETTER WOMEN drivers.

Posted by Samantha at 2005/09/21 22:53:47.

Good For You, I Am Fed Up With Feminist's, I Am Not Chauvinistic, But I Disagree With Diamond Totally.

I Have A Story That May Interest You;

A While Ago Gillette Where Going To Be Sued As All There Products Where Male Based, The Outcome Of This Forced Them To Produce A Female Range.

I Have Nothing Against Feminism, As Long As It Is For Equallity, The Feminist's Want To Be Treated BETTER Than Men, Not Equal To.

A Feminist Said This To Me The Other Name:

"All Men Are The Same, They Refuse To TReat Women As Individuals"

Yeah, Cos Thats Not Hippocritical At All Is It!

Posted by Zero at 2005/09/29 13:42:32.

Why can't men accept that women are better drivers? ...

Because of this.....

THE age-old debate about who makes the best drivers was re-ignited yesterday when the country’s chief driving examiner, Robin Cummins, declared that men were superior behind the wheel. In a newspaper interview, Mr Cummins said men have more natural ability and control and need less teaching.

He told the Sunday Times that Driving Standards Agency pass rates showed women needed more time to pass their driving test, with a 40 per cent overall pass rate for women compared to 46 per cent for men.

Posted by Paul Smithy at 2005/10/05 23:38:20.

What do all you men think of Sheilas wheels, another car insurance company created just for women. If you search for women only insurance companies you will find that there are loads online but there are also now 2 main ones, Diamond and Sheilas wheels. This indicates the fact that insurers would rather insure women because women are better drivers than men. Just accept it!

Posted by Holly at 2005/10/13 18:16:01.

This irritates me greatly. Diamond car insurance irked me as soon as I saw it on TV. Like a lot of other people on this site have said, women campaigned for a long time for EQUAL RIGHTS. I don't class "Female only insurance" as sexual equality. I don't even care if women ARE better drivers, it's still sexism. Now sheila's wheels has showed up, it has just re-ignited the flame. More sexism. Let the "male's only" insurance group appear. Let's see how many women complain. Let's see how fast it gets completely removed from existance, then wonder why sexist companies like diamond and sheilas wheels are still going. Since there's been a few sexist comments here, I'd like to say this: Women are more careful, hmm? I guess you could call it that. However, I don't call driving down a 50 mph road at 30 mph, 'safe.' I call it stupid. That's how accidents are caused.

Posted by Mike at 2005/10/22 21:19:22.

It looks as though i have wound you up Mike!! I don't think any comments made by women here are sexist because facts speak for themselves and girls are better drivers than men. All you men know it's true but want to keep it hidden away because you are embarrased. Well i certainly let it known to all men i know particularly my husband that women are better drivers and i encourage all girls to do the same. I am proud to be a woman and proud to be part of the safer driver sex.

Posted by Holly at 2005/10/26 23:02:47.

Thats great Holly, but i think you are missing the point here. You women can debate all you like now and it means nothing because...

"The Country’s Chief Driving Examiner, Robin Cummins, declared that men were superior behind the wheel."

Now, this guy is the Chief Driving Examiner. The top bloke at the DSA, a Government created, endorsed, backed organisation that is in charge of driving test for the UK.

This is fact and all you women must now agree that...

a) Men are superior behind the wheel.

and

b) Insurance companies such as Diamond are clinging on to an age old statistic that women are better drivers than men.

What now needs to be done is to abolish women only insurance companies and start some men only insurance companies to set things right and to reflect the FACTS!.

Posted by Paul Smithy at 2005/10/30 18:48:01.

Paul,

The DSA guy's comments refer to the length of time it takes to pass a test, and is of no consequence when it comes to actually being out on the road unsupervised.

This fact makes no difference to the over-riding fact that men account for more than 95% of accidents on the roads (the figures have been quoted in the Sheilas' Wheels press things, and are from the Home Office).

Women might irritate men when they're driving, but have you ever considered that it's men's inability to stay calm behind the wheel that makes them more susceptible to irrational and therefore dangerous driving decisions?

The 'age old' statistics are based on the number of claims by women, and the costs of these claims. Maybe women do knock into things more often (i don't know), but statistically, the chances of them injuring another person or damging another vehicle or far less than that of a man. These stats are continually updated by insurance companies (otherwise their profits would go down the pan), and i think it's slightly more unfair for women to prop up the more expensive claims of men, than it is for men to suffer at their own hands.

And after all, the conecpt of what makes a good driver differs from person to person. The costs of a claim, however, are proportionate to all, and if ours cost less, we should pay less to protect ourselves.

Posted by tracy at 2005/10/31 09:40:08.

Paul, I have searched the internet and found that the following sites all have something in common. Diamond.co.uk, sheilaswheels.com, diva-car-insurance.com, ladiesinsurance.com, femalemotor.com, her-car-insurance.com, girlmotor.com, 1stforwomen.com and covergirlinsurance.com. 9 sites that all share the same views and do the same things. That is they do car insurance just for women because they know that women are better drivers than men. Take a look at them and you will see that they all have rock solid evidence that women are better drivers than men. They also all say that they were created so that women wouldn't have to subsidise higher risk drivers, for example, men! if you look for men only insurance companies there are none to be found. So why has a girl like me got the opportunity to choose out of 9 women only companies plus all the companies that insure both women and men but you, being a man, can only choose out of companies that insure both sexes? The answer is simple, because women are better drivers than men. All the facts are in the favour of women. Stuff what one man, who you quoted said, the fact is that women are better drivers than men and you simply cannot accept it. That is not my problem. Anyway now i am going to renew my policy with Diamond, or sheilas wheels, or should i choose cover girl. So many choices, so many LOW insurance quotes to get. Well i guess thats what comes with being a better driver, what sex am i again, oh yes, FEMALE!!!

Posted by Holly at 2005/10/31 18:58:22.

I visited some of the websites that Holly mentioned and she is correct. They all state that officially women are better drivers than men (especially her-car-insurance.co.uk!) Also, sheilas wheels offer the following statistics: Men are responsible for 97% of all dangerous driving convictions, 94% of all car accidents involving death or bodily harm, 89% of drink and drug driving convictions, 85% of all careless driving convictions, and 83% of all speeding convictions. This is why companies like diamond only insure women, because overall if you only insure women then you are insuring the safer sex. I know that some men are better than women and vice versa, but the problem for men at the moment is that there are more better women drivers than better men drivers

Posted by Samantha at 2005/11/03 18:56:48.

Actually the reason there are no male only car insurance companies is they would be sued to hell the instant they tried to set up the business, yet double standards allow Diamond and the like to continue existing.

Posted by Dave at 2005/11/03 19:16:03.

It is only women aged 17-25 that are much better drivers than men. Women of this age group save much more on car insurance than men. This is the type of women that diamond are aiming towards. After this age things even themselves up a bit, but women are still slightly better on the road. I read in the daily mail that it is all down to hormones. If this is true their is nothing that can be done so just live with it and forget it.

Posted by Bekka at 2005/11/08 20:02:27.

Bekka, I feel a compelling desire to inform you, that what you write is absolute trash! Your comments never cease to augment in stupidity! To rationally elucidate a countering diatribe predicated - for starters - on your implicit belief in ‘The Daily Mail’ would be both a waste of my time and an overestimation of your overtly miniscule capacity to either comprehend or understand - it would be tantamount to performing a card trick for a dog.

Posted by Mike at 2005/11/21 15:49:21.

Holly, it doesn’t surprise me one bit that you had to question ‘what sex’ you were, in the conclusion to what can only be described as the fanatical scribbling of a stupid woman desperate to masquerade her ‘supposed’ victory, as a leper would his bell, as it is precisely this physiological malady that has led to your inability to absorb the most obvious of information. To reiterate – in case you have forgotten, once again, what your original query was - yes you are correct - please try not to be too shocked, as I’m sure this maybe an unusual feeling for you to absorb - you are female, and yes, there are copious insurance agencies setup solely for women. However, Holly your insipid – and may I add pitifully predictable - prose have overlooked one small detail… insurance companies setup exclusively for woman are rarely – and I do mean rarely – any cheaper than companies who cater for both the sexes – but are in fact often far more expensive - as what such businesses play on is the unfamiliarity women feel vis-à-vis the postulation that they maybe considered the better drivers, as such an intervention immediately guarantees fiscal gain with regard to childish women like yourself who are unable to pear beyond the veil of Maya - to reveal that no company is there to make life easier for you, however much they may suggest otherwise. Moreover, good luck with Diamond… (just a tiny point for you to consider… their insurance only lasts 10 months, as opposed to the usual 12, which explains their slight - if any - reduction in cost) .

Holly in reading your short, juvenile, immature, self-indulgent and foolish post, I couldn’t help but muse over an aphorism on the subject of women by Nietzsche:

‘If you admit to a women that she is in the right, she cannot refrain from setting her heal triumphantly on the neck of the defeated – she has to enjoy victory to the full; while between men in such a case being in the right usually produces a feeling of embarrassment. As a consequence the man is accustomed to victory, while to the woman it comes as an exception’ (A.O.M 291)

Still Holly… as they say: ignorance is bliss… I’m sure you can vouch for that…

Posted by Reggy at 2005/11/21 16:36:34.

Yeah Fuck you Holly

Posted by Dave at 2005/11/22 09:38:47.

Holly I bet your husband really loves you. Honest

Posted by Dave at 2005/11/22 09:40:55.

From what I can see Holly, you are not a very nice person. Have you ever heard of men and women getting along with each other, like all normal people do? You are intent on causing an argument about a petty little subject like this. Quite rightly, a lot of people are very angry with horrible comments. We all have a quick joke about bad drivers, of whom can be anyone at all (No not just men), and then we forget about it. You are clearly a very sad person with not a lot going on in your life if this subject, which no one really cares about, bothers you so much.

Posted by David at 2005/11/24 17:55:10.

Has anyone noticed that the Sheilawheels ad, while purporting to have lady drivers' interests at heart, cannot help using bimbo models dressed in pink?

Chauvinist pigs at heart !
Watch out, girls !

Luv to all my sisters out there,

Joe (just a boy, tellin' it how it is)

Posted by Joe at 2005/11/29 09:00:31.

I recently took an English exam and we had to analyse adverts. The advert was a diamond one. What i am about to say shows that diamond is well out of order and completely sexist. The advert read 'Women! Cheaper car insurance. Diamond only do insurance for women because women are better drivers. So girls, call diamond now.' This is only part of the advert. The picture was of a women carrying a bag of shopping putting lipstick on. Like Reggy said, the girls in the class couldn't help themselves and had to annoy the boys as much as possible. My main point is that there is no evidence that women are better drivers. They just say it and that is ok? How long before the real truth comes out and they are stopped from printing abusive articles to men just because they are women?

Posted by Martin at 2005/12/01 19:09:17.

I was recently reading an article about how to save money on your car insurance. One way was gender. It said that by being a women you were considered a better driver so got a lower premium. It advised couples to insure a car under the womans name. The article was in exchange and mart online. Quite a good source i would think. Still, you men would probably still rather pay more than accept that you could pay less by insuring the car under a better woman drivers name. Stop abusing me boys and start accepting that women are simply better drivers than men!

Posted by Holly at 2006/01/20 18:49:45.

Ive been thinking the same since i first looked in to car insurance, its disgusting, theres no reason at all they can say im a worse driver then any random women just coz im a man. if it was the other way round and women had to pay more, there would be an uproar, it would be stopped and the companys doing it would be shut down or forced to change. How are they getting away with it?
Oh and holly i know i dnt know u but seriously if anyone even thought of making a company that refused insurance to women and charged you more. That man would be labelled sexist straight away and the company would never be made. It just couldnt happen

Posted by cn at 2006/01/26 22:40:42.

sorry Bekka, you're arguing that all women are better drivers then all men because of there hormones, now i know this sounds sexist as well, but i dnt know any women that would argue that alot of women and their hormones tend not to get on. especially at certain times. And car insurance companys such as diamond. dnt charge women more for one week of the month. And if this was about hormones that they certainly would. The reason they charge men more is because in today society its perfectly acceptable to be sexy against men. and by doing so they make more money. Simple as That.

Posted by cn at 2006/01/26 23:14:02.

It would appear that this discussion has degenerated into a battle of the sexes, with women saying "girls are better drivers; admit it as truth," and men saying "men are better drivers; admit it as truth," yet hard facts are not being offered.

Granted, there are some statistics offered, but I would have to ask what the source is, what time period they used, what the margin of error is, what the sample size was, etc.

Another point to consider, about these statistics, is that they are, at best, only for large groups (as a whole), rather than individuals. Perhaps young women are better drivers (statistically) than young men, but there are also crappy young women drivers and excellent drivers who are young men.

I could go on and on, but I think I have made my point.

Posted by Matt (an American) at 2006/03/10 06:40:20.

I am now completely satisfied with all of your arguments ladies. The fact is that I am now, not bothered that a) there are women only insurance companies and b) that there are so many claims that women are better drivers than men.

I have now completed several quotation tests including Lloyds, More Than, Royal Sun Alliance and many more. I will now share my results with you.

Getting quotes for like for like insurance... So same age, same car, same address, same length of time driving etc... I have found that my quotations for me as a male came out on average £170 cheaper than me as a female. AND THATS A FACT.

So to conclude this debate for me (I can't say for the rest of you), You can keep your women only insurance companis because 1) Insurance companies don;t even stick to their own rules and statistics (LOL) and 2) I don't give a flying s**t because I know that realistically, i can get cheaper insurance than a woman. (ROFL)

Lots of love to all you loosers.
Paul

P.S. Laughing my pants off now because after my research i know that these women only insurance companies are really ripping you women off whilst making you believe that you are getting a great deal LOL LOL LOL HA HA HA. Good luck ladies.

Posted by Paul at 2006/03/12 01:10:38.

Just to add insult to injury here... I now know 6 women that have been refused insurance by 2 well known women insurance companies. Now that is just the best laugh ever.

LOL ROFL PMSL HA HA HA HA.

Good luck you loosers!

Posted by Paul at 2006/03/12 01:15:32.

How starange that it is acceptable for a woman to jump up and down demanding rights however small or insignificant and as men we all have to bow down as we do when being told that it is racist apparently to utter a song, sentence or coffee product with the word "Black in it.
At work now, the former "manhole Covers" must now be described as "Access chamber covers" "manmade" is now "human crafted" BUT the moment I complain about this Insurance crap I am apparently suffering from " extreme sensitivity to sexism

Soory people, you cant kill your parents then complain that you are an orphan!!! if they want equality ...let them have it, unfortunatly THEY DO NOT!!! women want SUPERIORITY and that is a fact!!

Posted by Blaster stu at 2006/03/13 16:47:42.

The reason you were cheaper as a man than a women Paul, is because due to the fact that you are a man you made more claims than the average women and these claims cost more than for the average woman. When a man and woman are exactly the same a man may get a better deal, because it is a mixed sex insurance company. That is exactly why diamond was set up, because women were subsidising higher risk men drivers. You may be a very safe driver Paul, but on average women are safer and better drivers. I am pleased you got a cheaper quote for being you (a man) as opposed to being a woman. However, if i was the exact of you and went to diamond, they would give me a cheaper premium for being part of the safer sex. Also i bet that most girls are better at driving than you anyway!! I think that deep down it really annoys you that some car insurance companies only insure women, and they only do that because women are better drivers. If you require any stats backing this up i will give them to you!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/03/14 20:00:11.

ive got good news, The European social affairs commissioner Anna Diamantopoulou , whos a feminist in the government, is trying to ban insurance companys from being sexist. of course she isnt aiming it at car insurance because feminist wnt except sexism works both ways. but any way if the ban goes though then what sex you are will not matter when it comes to car insurance and it will final be based purely on how good of a driver you are. Which is the only fair and sensible way of doing it.

Posted by cn at 2006/03/21 24:52:12.

one more thing i forgot to say is, this argument seems to be going off track, car insurance is sexist, as it judges ur driving ability on ur sex, it doesnt matter whether men or women are the better drivers. because ur driving ability doesnt hav any thing to do with what sex u are. look at it this way if an insurance company said they had statistic saying one race is a on average better at driving then another, so they are going to start charging other ethnic groups more. That wud be racist. wouldnt it. and this is exactly the same as that. To judge some ones ability on what sex they are is sexist. so car insurance is at the moment seixst.

Posted by cn at 2006/03/21 13:04:42.

Any of you boys heard the sheilas wheels adverts. The line i like most is 'Women make the safest drivers!' If women are safer than they are better.

Posted by Holly at 2006/04/14 15:43:34.

Holly, Your arguments are pointless.

Listen, this is a test that everyone can do.... Do an insurance quote with diamond as a man... then with the exact details as a woman. I put paula as my female name....

My quote as a man came to £423.15 and as a woman it came out as exactly the same.

Do the test. Then stop debating about who is better / safer drivers because IT DOSE NOT MATTER ANYMORE!.

Posted by Paul at 2006/04/27 18:06:05.

I forgot to add......

Have you noticed in that Shielas Wheels Advert that the car is going backwards? I think there is a hidden message about women there....

Posted by Paul at 2006/04/27 18:07:40.

Thanks for telling me that Paul. Now i know that my car insurance actually costs less than yours! So now we can stop arguing because when it comes to me and you, who are having this argument, it looks that i am indeed a better driver than you!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/06 18:23:38.

I cant believe how much shit you are talking!. How the hell can you say you are paying cheaper car insurance than me when you don't know how old I am, where I live, what car I drive, how many years no claims bonus I have etc....etc....

You really do prove what men have always known about women and that is that you all talk a load of f**cing bollocks.

So yeah! you can stop arguing now cos none of us want to hear you talking complete and utter shite anymore.

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/08 12:35:19.

How can i say that i get cheaper car insurance than you? Simple, because women pay less than men because women are better drivers. As i am a woman who has never made a claim i must be cheaper than you, even if you have never made a claim, because i am a woman. Do you think that's unfair? How can it be, women are better drivers so pay less for insurance, what is wrong with that?

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/08 17:02:22.

Well you obviously have not donr the test mentioned in my earlier post. If you had, you would have found that the quote comes out the same with Diamond and less with others as a man.

I'll let you have the fact that women are perhaps 'safer' drivers than men (Not better!). The point i was making was that the insurance companies are lying when they say they reward women drivers for being 'safer' drivers (Again, not better).

Now get off that your high bullshit horse and stop talking bollocks.! As far as i am concerned, you are full of it and my point has been proven (which is why you are the only fool left arguing now)

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/08 18:57:20.

I can't see many men arguing either! Why can't you accept that women are officially better, yes better drivers than men. Visit diamond, sheilas wheels and covergirlinsurance.co.uk
They will provide you with the facts. Here's a couple: 97% of convicted dangerous drivers are men. Want some more?

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/08 21:09:55.

You really make me laugh. If women are 'better' like you say, why isn't womens insurance cheaper than mens?

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/10 13:59:33.

Shows how stupid you are. WOMEN'S INSURANCE IS CHEAPER THAN MEN'S. It is just that you can't accept it. It is a well known fact that women are better drivers, just live with it!
I think you are one of those men who just can't accept that women are better at doing something that men considered to be just for them 50 years ago. If all these insurance companies are only insuring women, then there must be some sense in it. They wouldn't do it if women were more expensive to insure. The only reason your insurance may be so cheap is because some poor woman is subsidising you. She should join a women only company like women on wheels, girl motor, diamond, sheilas wheels, cover girl or the many others on the internet. How many male only comoanies are there? Paul, just accept it when you are beaten. Women have won this battle, we are better drivers. FACT.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/10 17:35:30.

You really don't know what you are talking about do you? Why don't you try LISTENING to other people and stop being so blind to the REAL FACTS.

FACT: Diamond insure men.
FACT: Diamond quotes like for like are the same for men and women.
FACT: The majority of quotes at other insurance companies Like for like are cheaper for men.

So i'll ask you again... If women are 'better' like you say, why isn't womens insurance cheaper than mens?

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/10 17:59:26.

Posting the same thing 5 times. You are a clever man aren't you! Diamond do insure men but they only get a quote from admiral, you have to actually be a woman to get a special deal. Also, doing what you did is stupid, the reason women get better deals is because we are better drivers. Most women haven't got a record like most mens. Our driving records are better. A man and a woman with the same record will obviously get the same deal but most women have better driving records than men, which is why get better deals on car insurance.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/10 18:36:03.

The post was entered 5 times because there was a CGI error on this site, but hey, your a woman and I wouldn't expect you to understand what that is.

At the end of the day, your full of shit and you just can't accept that you may be better at driving but you cant' get cheaper car insurance.

I have had enough of arguing this point now, especially with a woman that can't accept the FACTS. Its like trying to convince someone that red is red when they thing red is blue. But anyway, if you are happy with your argument and are happy with being a looser by paying more or even the same premium as men then thats fine with me...

So have a happy life, and good luck with insuring your car. An if this post appears 5 or 6 times thats another CGI Error.

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/10 18:43:00.

Cheers, i will enjoy getting my cheaper car insurance for being a woman. I have never had to post 5 times but i guess that is because i am a woman, and i am just superior to you in most ways (especially insurance!!!!!) Just remember 97%of convicted dangerous drivers are men!
94% of accidents that involve death or bodily harm are the fault of men!
89% of drink/drug driving convictions are for men!
85% of careless driving convictions are for men!
83% of speeding convictions are for men!
THESE ARE THE FACTS!
You just can't face the truth. This is quite a collection for male drivers. I will think of you when i see a diamond or sheilas wheels advert as i know how much they annoy you. For ladies who insure their cars
sheilas wheels are superstars
women make the safest drivers
we could save a bunch of fivers
for bonzer car insurance deals
girls get onto sheilas wheels!!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/10 20:50:01.

I think Paul has a point Holly. I have now done the test myself so why cant you answer his question.

If 97%of convicted dangerous drivers are men!
94% of accidents that involve death or bodily harm are the fault of men!
89% of drink/drug driving convictions are for men!
85% of careless driving convictions are for men!
83% of speeding convictions are for men!...

Why is it that these womens only insurance companies are actually cheaper for men when you do like for like tests?

Posted by Tom at 2006/05/11 14:39:04.

Im not impressed to be honest. I have been refused insurance by Diamond and Sheilas Wheels and i dont have any convictions or anything.

ps, i keep getting that error too!

Posted by Linzi at 2006/05/11 16:36:48.

I did your test Paul with diamond and sheilas wheels. With diamond i pay 156.00 pounds and as a man i would pay 178.00 pounds.
With sheilas wheels i would pay less, at 150.00 pounds but as a man i would pay 184.00 pounds.
Looks like i really do save money just for being a woman!!! Just as well i am a woman otherwise i would be paying at least 22 pounds more!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/12 21:00:53.

just did this test, £162 as a woman and £126 as a man with diamond.

good news for us men!

Posted by mark at 2006/05/13 15:47:07.

Holly, im gonna let you have this one.

At the end of the day, im not bothered, I thought that women made their point about equal opportunities but I guess not! So you can have your cheap insurance. because its us men that pay for it anyway.

Those women that work don't get paid as much as a man does doing the same job... and those women that stay at home and look after the kids don't earn so its the husbands that pay for them anyway. So that saves us some money!

Also, being a feeble woman, I suppose us men need to let you have something to make you feel a bit important I guess.... you know, not being able to do the things that men do...

So now you have concinced me that all things between men and women are not equal, and that men are much better at most things than women.... Im gonna let you have your cheap car insurance argument. Because at the end of the day you are good at some things..... Driving, washing up, hoovering, polishing, making beds, cooking, cleaning, scrubbing toilets, typing and taking notes, looking mighty fine so us men have something nice to whack off over. Titties to squeeze... ass to slap and squeeze.... your the best at titties and stuff...

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK LADIES.

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/13 16:03:50.

WILL THE AUTHOR OF THIS BLEEDING WEBSITE SORT OUT THE REPEATED POSTS CAUSED BY CGI TIIME OUT ERRORS.

THANK YOU

Posted by MARTIN at 2006/05/13 16:05:27.

p

Posted by p at 2006/05/13 16:13:10.

Paul, thank you for admitting that women are indeed better drivers than men. It looks like even you couldn't ignore the statistics! All the tits stuff is fine, you can look at all those girls who match your needs!! (Your clearly lacking something in some aspect of your life if you have to look at topless girls all the time!!!!) All i wanted was for you to admit that women make better drivers than men, and you have so i am happy.
Also, may i add that after listening to some of the women who have come on here saying diamond hasn't been good for them, it would seem i really do get a great deal! What bothers me most is being cheaper than most of the men i know, and i am including you!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/16 17:54:44.

You are completley right of course....

My insurance is currently £5774. It is difficult for me to run my car because of the costs being so high, I really wish I was a woman, then I could get cheaper car insurance.

But then again, I would have to do dishes, hoovering, washing up, looking after kids, be a sex object, not have the potential to earn as muh in the workplace and be an inferior species to the male. But never mind aye!.

It must be a real pleasure for you to have cheap car insurance being a woman. I mean, as a woman, you dont have the same chance as an man does to make it in life so I am really please for you, and wish you the best with your car insurance.

Lots of Love

Paul.

P.S. I bet you are a hot little number... If you want me to come over and give your body a good going over, you let me know OK honey!. I bet you spread them like the best!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/16 19:04:13.

I hope that you realisse that before all this I believed in equal rights for women... Now I don't give a fuck. If you want to play it this way.. you can add me back into the list of sexist men.

So good luck in your quest for diversity cos you wont find if with your attitude!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/16 19:11:29.

Is someone feeling a little distressed? In this day and age women are actually taking over the jobs that men used to do. We are becoming more successful and rapidly catching men up in every way. Insurance is just one of these ways which has been highlighted. Finally, i have a husband who gives me everything i need, so i won't be requiring you to to sleep with me. Unlike you i am in a stable loving relationship and don't go around offering my body to any top, dick ot harry. Back to the main point, women are better drivers than men, you have admitted this so please keep to the point.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/16 19:32:10.

But Holly, that is the point.... equal rights and oportunities for men and women, which you, diamond and sheilas wheels and others a like are all ignoring.

But hey, it dont matter anymore because I dont agree with equal rights. I am glad that you have not made it in the world and that you need your man to provide for you. That just goes towards proving MY point.

Also i am sure that you would like to think that women are catching men up but you couldn't be further from the truth! It is only a select few number of women that can do a mans job. And that is only because they are butch ugly tomboy women that should be put down anyway!

So there you go... Keep living in your fantasy world.... Hope your man keeps up the good work in supporting you and providing for your every need. I just hope that you repay him like women should by keeping that body nice and fit to meet HIS needs, and by doing the housework, making sure there is a cooked meal on the table when he gets home, running his bath for him and by being a good obedient little woman.

Oh and just to let you know.... im not feeling a little distressed, I am finally pleased that I dont have to keep up the pretence that women should have equal rights.... cos I strongly believe that women should look after the home and kids whilst the men go out and earn the money! Which is exactly what my misses does. (Cheap insurance for me too as I pay for her insurance)

So like i said..... Am I bothered?

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/17 05:05:16.

Actually i have a job, i go out to work and my husband and i share our responsibilities equally. That is the way things are done in the real world. I pay for my own cheap car insurance. I can afford everything that i need myself and could live quite easily on my own. If you think that the role of women hasn't changed since 1900 then you don't get out much from that cave of yours do you!
Interesting to see you have wavered off the point that this is about, should diamond be allowed to advertise like this? Looks like you have lost the argument so are moving on to other subjects!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/17 15:36:05.

I remember seeing the advert that Sarah Cawood did for diamond a few years ago. She knocked on the screen and said "Women are better drivers, sorry boys, it's just a fact." Then she went on about how diamond was different to other insurance companies and seemed to take great pleasure out of saying "Diamond is created JUST for women." The advert actually really wound me up because i see no evidence about how women are better drivers than men.
I have seen a few other diamond adverts like one with 3 women sitting around a table disscussing insurance arguing about who has the best insurance. One says "My company is created just for women" before they all delightfully say "You're not with DIAMOND" and then start giggling.
My point is that diamond seems more intent on taking the piss out of men and making then feel really small and women feel great.
For example, my gitlfriend knows how much diamond annoys me so keeps any leaflets which come out of her magazines. I think companies like diamond are created to try and prove that women are now standing on their own feet. It is nothing to do with insurance, just a great opportunity to annoy men, and it seems that many women love to take that chance.

Posted by Martin at 2006/05/17 17:31:03.

But Holly, that is the point..... (tut tut) It seems that its you that keeps changing your point view. First your husband pays for everything then the next minute he doesn't and you do evrything equally...

I think that Martin is right in that It is nothing to do with insurance, and that its just a great opportunity to annoy men.

So If you think that its nothing to to with equal rights for men and women, I'll bring it back to my original argument...

I have just done 'the test' again... and for me, I get cheaper insurance as a man than as a woman. So, please please try to answer this question without bombarding me with your 'FACTS' that don't seem to fit MY case....

Why are these women only insurance companies not sticking to these so called 'FACTS' and offering me more expensive insurance?

Just answer that!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/17 19:17:37.

Good lord, I posted here a year ago and the debate is still going on?

Fact of the matter is women are DIFFERENT to men, not better, not worse, but different. It's how we've evolved as humans, and I'm willing to agree that women are infact safer drivers than men, but saying that you're better makes no sense.

Better in what context? Safer, yes. Better, no.

The point we're getting at is not 'We're men, we're better than you feeble women!' the point we're making is that after fighting for EQUALITY all of these years it seems somewhat hypocritical for women to tip the balance the other way and walk all over us.

I'm 18, I've yet to learn to drive, but I've been raised to respect women and treat them equally as people. The difference between men and women is not significant enough to warrant us being classed differently from one another.

Take 10 men and 10 women, completely at random. They'll ALL be different.

We're all people, and as such should ALL be treated as indeviduals. Both men AND women. The sooner BOTH sides of this sexism argument realise that fact, the sooner we can have the equality that we all want and the sooner we can move onto more important issues.

Posted by Gary at 2006/05/18 14:45:02.

Well put Gary.

This is the point that I've been trying to make to Holly. The fact that we are all different and that insurance companies should quote on individuality and not on sexism. In general, women may be 'Safer' drivers, but that is not the best way to class insurance because not EVERY woman is 'Safer' than men.

I have desprately tried to convince Holly. I have even tried a bit of reverse psychology by changing my stand point in an attempt to make her step back and take stock. But it has all fallen on deaf ears. Holly is a woman, and even though in an ideal world things should be equal, they never will because of women like her. Women with tunnel vision and with such a closed mind.

She still however, needs to answer my question. Why are these women only insurance companies offering me the same or cheaper insurance premiums as a man?

Well the answer lies in what you said. Holly needs to realise and take this on board. The fact is that these insurance comanies are perhaps looking at insurance quotes on an individual basis and not as women vs men. Thats why my insurance is cheaper as a man... because its not as a man but as me. And thats my point!

But whats all the fuss about? In a nut shell, these companies that advertise women only insurance. Its all an advertising hype to drum up extra business. And unfortunately, women are the targeted customers. And if you think about it.... you'll find thats the TRUTH!.

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/18 15:53:59.

Looks like i've finally won this argument Holly.

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/20 06:56:26.

You may think you have won, but just face it, when it comes to car insurance, women win hans down. They are the words of women only insurance company 1st for women. I have given you all the facts about how and why women make better drivers. Also, if men are better drivers, why are there no insurance companies just for men?
As for your test, i have already done it and given you the results. I did another one with churchill and as a woman i was 210 pounds (so i clearly do save money with diamond!) and as a man i was a staggering 356 pounds!!!
Also, stop picking on sarah cawood Martin as she is only doing her job. As for diamond only being there to annoy men, i don't think so. They are here to provide women drivers with cheaper insurance than men, as we deserve this for our superiority behind the wheel. If they can annoy men at the same time, and they clearly are! then that is absolutely great!!!
Paul, you will never ever win because the facts are against you, and women have plenty of insurance companies designed just for us, men do not!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/20 14:15:45.

Sorry Holly, you have given me nothing that I can take as hard fact and you STILL have noy answered my question. I am not interested in what YOUR insurance costs so until you answer my question you have won NOTHING!

Q. Why are these women only insurance companies offering ME not YOU but ME the same or cheaper insurance premiums as a man?

I now know 36 people that have done my test and including you, there are only 3 of them that it has come out cheaper as a woman and 4 people that got refused insurance. Funny That!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/21 10:42:10.

While you are thinking about an answer to my question Holly, take a look at the photo evidence that women are not better drivers than men at - www.visual-interactive.co.uk/women

You never get pictures of men doing this kind of stuff!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/21 10:57:54.

Paul, you still won't accept my facts. How can you not call my facts hard. They are official. Also i have seen your hilarious pictures. Clearly this is a site by men and i should point out that there are many of these sites by women which show pictures of men drivers.
I would also like to give you some serious sites to look at:
As i have been forbidden sending links go to google and type in "women better drivers says watchdog " and you will find a page commenting on a subject very similar to this.
Then go back to google and type in "women drivers better claim proved" and the srgument should be over!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/21 24:42:34.

Firstly, i have read the watchdig report and it states that it was an Advertising Standards Authority ruling. Well they rate TV adds and have nothing to do with rating drivers. I want to know where they got their figures from. Where are the results for me to view?

Secondly, the next link on google is an interesting article which states - Young women drivers could pay up to 30% more for cover if European plans are taken up, the City watchdog has warned. Well this is fair. The exact thing that we all want... equal rights.

Thirdly, I wasn't forbidden from posting a URL (website link) into this forum, but hey, thats because i'm a man.

Finally, you have STILL failed to answer my question. And I am begining to think you don't have an answer...

Q. Why are these women only insurance companies offering ME not YOU but ME the same or cheaper insurance premiums as a man?

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/22 01:18:51.

Delighted to say that the EU voted against the proposition of equal car insurance premiums for men and women. This is because it was proved that women are better drivers than men and deserve their lower premiums. So as you said women would be paying 30% more, i guess they are still paying 30% less!
As for your question, clearly you are bound to pay less than some women, but you don't pay less than men, and women officially pay less than men on average, by around 30%. That is a fact. Why won't you recognise my statistics, because you know they are true and are concerned by them becuase when you admit they are correct, i have won the argument.
The main argument is about who pays less and it looks like that is women, actually, it is women.
Also, the ASA ruled that the diamond ad didn't break any rules, like false advertising. The ad stated women were better drivers, so they must be. Diamond provided the ASA with sufficient evidence to prove this. FACT.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/22 17:59:17.

Won this argument! I don't think so Holly, Not by a long shot!

Q. Why am I bound to pay less than some women? Can you answer that?

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/23 13:41:14.

Well, well, well, I have just stumbled across some interesting FACTS that completely blow all your facts out of the water Holly.

Here's a few FACTS that condem women as worse drivers than men!

1) There are just over twice the number of insured vehicles driven by men as women.

2) That does not include OCUPATIONAL driving, such as taxi and lorry driver (even trains apparently)

3) Women generally insure cheaper cars than men.

4) Women drive fewer miles.

5) Women account for 69% of all the speeding tickets in the UK and ireland. (LOL)

Just the numerical statists for this alone condems females to be worse than male drivers, on the account that they include conditions like other drivers who drive for a living, which make the number of male drivers 3-4 times the number of women drivers. In turn, this will result in the statistics being higher for men. In reality if you compare the same number of men and women, women suck at driving and thats a FACT!

And there it is! I think you have just lost the argument me darling cos with those statistics us men have you licked!

Enjoy!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/23 20:41:08.

Listen carefully Paul, women account for 47% of all drivers on the roads in Britain. That's basically half, correct. Yes. Here are some official home office statistics about the driving faults of men, actual proper facts about what happens on the roads:
Driving offences by MEN are:

Dangerous driving: 93%
Causing death/bodily harm: 94%
Drink driving: 89%
Drug driving: 89%
Careless driving: 85%
Breaking speed limit: 83%
Obstruction, waiting, and PARKING offences: 77%

Men may drive more miles but these stats are pretty convincing i think. It's us girls who have the men LICKED!
It's no wonder Britains roads are unsafe if men drive more miles! I say let us girls take over the family driving, that will make everyone much safer.
By the way, overall, men are convicted for 88% of all driving convictions.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/25 14:15:38.

WRONG!

There are just over twice the number of vehicles driven by men as women. So that means that approx. 68% of drivers are men. So lets apply this to your Home Office Facts.....

Dangerous driving: 46.5%
Causing death/bodily harm: 47%
Drink driving: 44.5%
Drug driving: 44.5%
Careless driving: 42.5%
Breaking speed limit: 41.5%
Obstruction, waiting, and PARKING offences: 38.5%

And I have loaded this calculation in favour of women. I haven't even started with the more milage etc, etc...

If you get statistics for 1000 women and 1000 men you will in fact find that men are in fact better drivers than women. You can't ignore these numbers, If you do, its like seeing what the least amount of juice is you can get out of 1 apple compaired to 1000 oranges.

So once again, there it is! I think you have just lost the argument cos with those statistics us men have you licked all over!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/25 18:07:37.

Trying to bend the stats won't wash with me paul. They are official Home Office figures released by the home office to confirm that women were indeed better drivers.
Since then a study has shown that women are better drivers than men in every department that matters. The only area they lost to men was in parking, but not many people die because of bad parking!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/25 20:27:31.

Sorry Holly, but there is no bending going on here, Given the new information I have found I am simply re-evaluating the 'Home Office' statistics you found. You are not going to convince me by constantly quoting these facts to me.

I have put foward a claim that invalidates the 'Home Office' statistics. Its now down to you to prove me wrong. Show me statistics recorded from an equal number of men and women and I will believe that women are safer drivers than men.

Until you do, my evaluation of your facts will remain. So like I said... I think you have just lost the argument cos with those statistics us men have you licked all over!

Posted by Paul at 2006/05/26 01:04:11.

That is fine Paul, think what you like. All i know is that I get cheaper car insurance than men i know and that is the most important thing for me.
Also, it is an accepted fact that women's claims cost less and our insurance is lower. If yours is lower than some women you know then great for you. But on average, women's is lower than men's. Common FACT. Just live with it Paul.

Posted by Holly at 2006/05/31 19:28:03.

Despite finding diamond adverts extremely annoying, i have done a little research into this topic. I won't blind you with the facts but i did find a lot of womens insurance companies and find that multi sex ones usually offer their female customers a cheaper deal. I still believe insurance should be based on individuality and think that diamond should advertise without the 'lets take the piss out of men' attitude. Paul, i don't think women are BETTER drivers but do think that they are Safer, there is a difference. Would you agree?

Posted by Martin at 2006/06/01 16:38:51.

Another mistake you made Paul because it looks like i've won this argument now!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/06/11 14:53:23.

Yes Holly, you have won the argument that women currently get cheaper car insurance than men. But we knew that all along didn't we! You still have a lot of work to do to prove that women are safer drivers than men. Like I said, you need to show some statistics with an equal number of men and women. And, until you do, you have proved nothing.

So, good luck in your quest!

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/13 13:22:43.

So you admit women get cheaper car insurance than men. There must surely be a reason for that. Hasn't it hit you that the reason is that women are safer drivers than men, and also better drivers than men. Our reward is cheaper premiums, and men's punishment is more expensive premiums!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/06/18 17:05:05.

Holly, you couldn't be further from the truth. The point is that the excessive premiums that men pay are unjustified. and there are no true statistics that prove that women are safer drivers than men. You have to realise that until there are statistics with an equal number of men and women, this argument will go on forever.

Furthermore Holly, better, safer, there is a difference. And I have to agree with some of the other posts. Men are better drivers than women.

So, I look forward to your statistics with an equal number of men and women. Good luck!

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/19 15:13:36.

hmmm no statistics Holly? Well it looks like i've won this argument now!!!

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/25 02:03:49.

Women make up 45% of drivers on the road. I have given you the facts already. Women are only 5% off making up half of the drivers and the stats are massively in favour of women, some standing at 97%, 92%, 89%, 85%. 5% more women wouldn't make that much of a difference. Also, look at most car insurance companies, excluding those who prefer to insure women and you will see they have policies for dealing with women, eg privilage and norwich union, because after all Paul, women are the better drivers!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/06/26 21:12:46.

Sorry Holly, but just blurting numbers at me does not prove a thing. You need to tell me where you got these figures from. (And by-the-way, they need to be 'officially printed statistics' showing a studdy taken from an equal number of men and women not just a load of numbers pinched off the internet) Also, Im not interested in insurance company's figures as its those that I am contesting!

And its no good saying that if insurance is cheaper for women it must mean that women are better drivers. If we all made that argument, the world in which we live would never change or progress would it!

So, after now voiding your comments, men will remain better drivers than women until such time you provide locations of said 'Official' documents with studies taken with an equal number of men and women.

PS. Just to back up my claim that women are more dangerous than men.... I know plenty of women that a) don't know where their dip stick is. b) Don't know how to fill their windscreen washer bottle up (Which is an offence if not filled by-the-way... 3 points and a fine! c) don't know how to check tyre tread depth and pressure. and d) can't park or reverse for toffy!

So, once again... Good luck!

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/27 05:17:38.

You are blind to the stats i give you because you don't want to believe them. They are OFFICIAL HOME OFFICE FIGURES. I also find your claim of men being better drivers quite interesting. Why don't you give me evidence that men are better drivers, because until you do you have no right to say that they are. However, i know you won't find any stats like this because they don't exist!!!

Posted by Holly at 2006/06/28 11:31:44.

You are correct Holly, I am blind to the stats you give me and I don't want to believe them because your OFFICIAL HOME OFFICE FIGURES don't specyfy if they were taken from an equal number of men and woman.

So, once again... Good luck getting those figures and until then, men will remain better drivers.

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/28 14:38:53.

Struggling to fing them statistics Holly? I don't think you are gonna find them. I personally don't think that an independant test has been carried out with an equal number of men and women... But keep searching...

Posted by Paul at 2006/06/30 18:54:25.

Paul, look at your yellow pages insurance section and see how many companies are created for women and how many are created for men. Also, if there are apparently no stats, hoe come you are saying men are better drivers, you have no proof, but i have lots of companies who want to insure me, and advertise aiming to insure me, why are these companies aiming not to insure you?

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/03 14:18:59.

GREAT IDEA! Lets take a look at the yellow pages....

Right. I've got 104 companies selling insurance. I won't go through them all but lets just see how many advertise for women only... We've got....

Asda Insurance.... They're not women only.
Swinton Colonnade Insurance Brokers.... They're not women only.
Budget Retail.... They're not women only.
Norton Insurance Services Ltd.... They're not women only.
The Insurance Partnership.... They're not women only.
Norwich Union Direct.... They're not women only.
N F U Mutual.... They're not women only.
CITY INSURANCE GROUP.... They're not women only.
1ST QUOTE INSURANCE.... They're not women only.
ENDSLEIGH INSURANCE SERVICES.... They're not women only.
QUICK QUOTE INSURANCE SERVICES.... They're not women only.
The Policy Shop Ltd.... They're not women only.

mmmm I don't know Holly, im struggling here...

S.G BUSBY.... They're not women only.
Dickson & Co Insurances.... They're not women only.
Express Insurance Services Limited.... They're not women only.

oh, oooh hang on.....

Diamond.... But wait a moment, they insure men!
sheilas wheels... But wait a moment, they insure men!

All in all Holly, I've found about 12 insurance comanies for women out of 104, and only 2 of them don't insure men. So once again your facts are bollocks.

So stop talking compete and utter shite and realise that women are not better or safer than men. Until you get the statistics that say women are better than men from an independant test carried out with an equal number of men and women, your argument will remain pointless bollocks. So you'd better get used to that fact!

Good luck finding them statistics Holly. I'll keep an eye on this website incase you find some!

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/03 18:16:34.

For some reason I feel strangely attracted to fiercely argumentative women. Holly- you sound like my kind of girl. I'll insure you any day!

Posted by Jimmy at 2006/07/04 24:48:51.

Blimey! My favourite comment was "WILL THE AUTHOR OF THIS BLEEDING WEBSITE SORT OUT THE REPEATED POSTS CAUSED BY CGI TIIME OUT ERRORS."

One way to fix this could be turning off any further comments!

Posted by John at 2006/07/04 13:01:11.

John, since this started, I should think that most of the people posting have now reached the lower premiums through age!! :)

Posted by Mad Mumsie at 2006/07/04 13:19:01.

Its funny, Its only Holly left thats arguing. I've repeatedly asked her for equal women/men facts and she keeps avoiding the issue and talking bollocks. So as far as I am concerned.... Men are better, case closed.

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/06 24:34:42.

Paul, you say men are better, but you have no evidence at all, whilst i have given you evidence which you continue to ignore. Also, any car insurance company designed for women is 1 more company designed for women then there is designed for men. The facts i gave you are overall facts about british men and women drivers, from the home office. Therefore they are considering every driver in britain, not an independant survey of a few men and women, but all britains drivers. Car insurance companies gave information about the claims that the 2 sexes made and the facts which i have given you on many an occasion were the outcome. They are heavily in favour of women and women make up 45% of britains drivers, nearly half. Another 5% is hardly likely to make a huge difference to the figures. So wake up and realise that you are the one who needs to find evidence to prove men are better drivers, because the facts are all in favour of women and the car insurance companies agree with me. Also, diamond, sheilas wheels and cover girl, the 3 main women only insurers will only insure men as a named driver on a woman's policy. If the women doesn't want the man then the man won't be insured!
Finally, you go on about me being the only woman left arguing, but you are the only man left arguing. This is agian eveidence of you being completely unaware of all that surrounds you and you like to hide away from the facts don't you.

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/06 18:57:23.

Unfortunatlely Holly, you have given me a load of bollocks facts that dont reflect a true representaion of the driving population and regardless of where you got them from.

So stop being so blind and finally realise that until there are statistics available with an equal number of men and women involved, you have absolutley nothing to add!

With the bullshit so called facts you keep on blerting at me, there are twice the number of men than women. So of course women would be better than men... This is exactly what I am disputing.

Now run along and get me some equal statistics... cos until you do my preety, you are contributing bupkiss to the debate.

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/06 19:38:27.

I agree this is a form of female chauvinism because even their advertisement's are hateful toward's men with all of these inappropriate comment's like boy racer, and dangerous driver these steriotype's about men are totally untrue it's the female driver's themself's that are hopeless dangerous driver's because they are too busy looking at the newest fashion accessories and shoes more than their concentration on the road!!!, I'am Ferious!!!!!!! about this it drives me to the brink of insanity everytime these feminazi's broadcast their male hate campaign and sheilas wheel's are just as bad!!! come on guy's start an all male only dominated car insurance company to show these
housewifes that they should stay better give this up otherwise we men will be forced to start our own anti-feminist canpaign and believe me it won't stop here we will take it to the street's male pride all the way :-).

Posted by Michael O'Flaherty at 2006/07/11 13:47:24.

I think we've finally drummed it into Holly that there are no statistics supporting either case and therefore womens only car insurance is sexist and should be banned.

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/13 19:28:50.

I have proved everything i need to prove to you over and over again. Women nearly always get cheaper car insurance than men, the stats i have given you prove women are better drivers. You won't admit to the evidence. How many insurance companies specialise in men's insurance? NONE, there must be a reason for this and that reason is that women are better drivers. Wake up and realise it.

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/13 22:30:26.

BRILLIANT Holly! OK, now you have got these stats the argument will now be resolved.... Just to confirm, please tell me how many men and how many women were included in these new stats you have?

Please let us know ASAP as we are all eager to know.

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/14 17:13:40.

Well Holly, I guess that if you have not got the figures of how many men and women there were in these statistics of yours then they are like i have maintained all along..... Meaningless bollocks.

You have proved NOTHING! all you have done is blurted facts no doubt, copied and pasted from some website you have found and they font reflect the true driving population. Then you try to be all clever by saying that you get cheap insurance so you're OK... welll Great!... I get cheaper insurance than you so whats been achieved there,...... again.... NOTHING!.

Then you go on to say that there are women only insurance companies and no men insurance companies, so therefore it must be true that women are better drivers than men.

Welll If that is all you can base it on then you have lost the argument.... So like I said.... the only way you are gonna win is if you get me statistincs from an equal number of men and women.. and we all know that that aint gonna happen.

So finallly, men are better than women..... and if you dont like it!, get me some facts like i have asked. cos anything else just won;t do.

CASE CLOSED...

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/15 17:37:08.

If men are better than women, then you find me some facts to prove it. This works both ways. I have more evidence then you and if you think official home office figures are just copy and pasted from some website then you are wrong, they are official and they are taken from 45% of women and 55% of men. The stats are so much in womens favour that the 5% makes no difference. Now i have given you what you wanted you have to admit women are better drivers, something that i, and all the other girls out there, have known for ages, you just can't see the obvious.

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/16 23:13:42.

Its no good telling me about these figures.... I want to see these Home Office stats for myself. Tell me where i can find them.

If you need to tell me a wabsite address to go to, enter it without the h t t p : / / bit. e.g. www.website.co.uk

I look forward to seeing them!

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/17 02:14:20.

Holly, please try and get your head around this.

According to Diamond, women have pretty much the same number of accidents as men, but less write-offs. They also say that women drive fewer miles than men. This means that women have the same amount of accidents in spite of driving less. It can, therefore, be logically concluded that if women drove the same distances as men, they would have MORE accidents. Also, because women drive shorter distances, they probably spend less time on motorways, and therefore drive slower. If they increased their annual mileage, their speed would increase, and so would the seriousness of their accidents. Also, by your own admission, there are less women driving than men. If these numbers were the same, along with everything else mentioned so far, the number of accidents would presumably even out.

Still with me, Holly? I am not disputing that women have less crashes than men. Nor am I disputing that companies should offer people who have less crashes cheaper insurance, as that is just business sense. But I am disputing the idea that this makes them better or safer drivers than men. As I demonstrated in the previous paragraph, the variables between the two are too great for a definitive statement to be made. In order for a concrete distinction to be formulated, it would be necessary to carry out tests with a carefully chosen test group. This would involve choosing men and women of the same age, from the same area, who drive the same cars, on the same routes, at the same times of day, and for the same periods. Until this happens, it cannot be said that men or women are the better drivers. Do you agree, or are you so blinded by your arrogance that you will persist with your baseless argument that women 'just are' better.

And as for you asking why companies are so eager to offer you insurance if women aren't better drivers, the answer is that it's a marketing gimmick. The companies know that women are naive enough to fall for it, and how eager they are to 'get one over on the boys'. Having looked on other forms, I have noticed a lot of women complaining that they found cheaper quotes than those offered by Diamond or Sheila's Wheels. So, maybe these companies are just pretending to be cheap, knowing full well that many women won't bother to do their research. After all, Diamond and Sheila's Wheels are done 'by women for women', and women wouldn't dream of ripping their 'sisters' off, would they?

One final point about statistics. If I did my research and found out that black people were more likely to crash than white ones, could I set up and advertise a company that would specialise in insuring white people? Or what about if I owned a shop and proved with research that black men were more likely to steal from shops? Could I then refuse to allow black people into my shop, or charge a black-only fee for admission to make up what I would probably lose? Or would my efforts be condemned and treated with the disdain they would deserve, when in fact what I was trying to do would not be any different to what Diamond and Sheila's Wheels actually do every day?

By the way, Holly, I want to see the URL for these statistics you keep crowing on about. So do what Paul says and provide us with them.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/07/17 10:48:56.

I believe that you make a sensible comment Robbo, although i disagree that women would choose diamond because they are just for women. I did my research and found that diamond offered me less, and sheilas wheels actually offer me even less, so i may go with them next time. Most females i know get a good deal with diamond. I will try to balance my opinion slightly. The reason that diamond split men and women up is because that is the easiest way to split people up, not by race but by gender, you are either male or female. On the other hand you may be black, white, tanned, dark but not fully black.

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/17 13:47:32.

Read this page, it gives you the facts you want and may point out a few things you didn't know:

Go onto google home page and type this in:

www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3703629.stm

Google will then give you the page to go on.

Posted by Holly at 2006/07/17 14:00:28.

Holly, that article is two years old, and the statistics it quotes are from 1998-2002. Do the same with the link provided below and it will take you to a company called Ladybird Insurance. Although the website is aimed at women, and riddled with the kind of unsubstantiated male-bashing propaganda that one would expect, the article entitled The Wheel Deal does surprisingly contain some points about how female drivers are getting worse. Unsurprisingly, though, it offers this information as a warning to women to stop them losing their 'moral advantage' over men.

www.ladybirdinsurance.co.uk/Two%20feature%20articles/article3.html

In regard to your article, anybody who does not feel that women have a competitive streak when driving has obviously never been carved up by a girl racer and her loosely-clenched fist-waving minions. Either that, or they've never been subjected to mothers doing the early-morning school run in the 4x4s they always choose over people carriers - presumably because they think they make them bigger and exude power. Driver competitiveness as a male trait is as much a myth as the idea of domestic violence being a totally one-way affair, with women always being the victims.

I did some research of my own and put my details into Confused as a woman. Oddly, neither Diamond or Sheila's Wheels featured in the top five, and the cheapest company was one called Insure And Go, which also offered me my cheapest quote as a man. It even manages this without resorting to the tacky and cynical advertising Diamond and Sheila's Wheels feel the need to use as bait for women. It seems that these companies are nothing more than normal insurers. The only difference I can see is that they think they are being clever by using social tensions, and the apparent contemporary female need to outdo men, as a marketing ploy to convince women that they are getting a good deal, when in fact a wide range of other companies would have offered the same or better. Men seem to be a more sceptical audience and wouldn't fall for such tactics, as they are more concerned with the ends (the price) rather than the means (the adverts), and are more willing to do research before choosing.

Rather than segragating drivers by sex or any other factor, companies could actually start treating people like individuals. In Germany, for instance, the number of years spent actually driving is considered more important than age, whereas the opposite seems to be true in the UK.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/07/17 17:15:23.

Robbo, its great to have someone else backing up and re-establising the comments I made months ago. I just find it strange that Holly has found your comments to be 'sensible' and have without review, dismissed all my comments which happen to be based on exactly the same lines of your comments.

Nevertheless, I am glad that she is now re-evaluating our points of view and starting to take them on board... I am interested how far Holly is prepared to go with this.

Posted by Paul at 2006/07/17 18:17:44.

Please don't think all women are like Holly. So she gets cheap car insurance, why tell the whole world. Lots of people get cheap car insurance, including men, yes Holly including men. I think we all admit that young women get cheaper insurance than young men, it shouldn't be the case but that is the way it is. The way i look at it is that it is great for young women. However, after a few years, the individualk driver proves what type of driver he/she is and gets a quote based on driving record. There are many good male drivers, and female drivers. Basically there is almost no difference between men and women.
When i heard about sheilas wheels i thought i would get a quote from them, not because i thought, "great they don't insure men", just because they claimed to give women a better deal, and lets face it we will do whatever possible to get the best deal. There quote was 250 pounds more expensive than my quote from Tesco car insurance. Unbelieveable. Unlike Holly i am not desparate to be with a women only firm.
Sheilas wheels and diamond are simply advertising machines and lie. It wouldn't surprise me that women like Holly are fooled by them.
Anyway, ignore Holly she seems to have a problem with men, just let her be.

By the way has her husband divorced her yet?

Posted by Samantha at 2006/07/23 22:50:28.

Thanks for your input Samantha. I don't think all women have a problem with men, but it does seem to be an increasing trend amongst young women. However, that doesn't really surprise me, given the constant media assault on us.

In terms of driving, I feel that car insurance quotes for men and women will even out in future. As I said in my previous post, I think the reason women have less serious crashes is because they spend less time driving. Thinking some more about this, I realised that I could probably count on one hand the number of taxis I have been in that were driven by women. In fact, the same seems to be true in any job where driving is a major part of it - most lorry drivers, bus drivers and travelling sales people seem to be men. However, more women appear to be moving into these jobs, and so I expect that in future the accident statistics will paint a more accurate and fairer picture.

I also have concerns about these statistics, as I am unsure of what they actually show. Are the statistics representative of accidents in which the police turned up, or did the Home Office get them from the insurance companies. In either case, how do accidents which were settled on the spot, without either the police or insurance companies getting involved, figure into them? Also, what about accidents in which the person who caused them did not stop, or hit-and-runs where nobody was caught?

Posted by Robbo at 2006/07/23 23:58:57.

Well, well, well, I never would have thought that this debate would come to a close. I guess that mens point have view have finally been accepted and that women have accepted that there are no supporting facts to warrent womens only car insurance. All that is left to say I suppose is this... Women, be careful when choosing your insurance because all they want is your money!

Posted by Paul at 2006/08/17 17:10:05.

But womens car insurance is still cheaper than mens car insurance! FACT

Posted by Holly at 2006/08/28 19:02:41.

Yes Holly, womens car insurance works out cheaper for YOU. And I don't really care to be honest, because I have 16 years NCB which makes my insurance cheaper than yours anyway.

Thats right Holly! I have never had an accident, prang, bump, killed someone or caused an accident. Allthough I have seen many and funny enough they all involved... Yes you've guessed it.... WOMEN!

Posted by Paul at 2006/08/29 06:05:58.

Paul, you said once what your car insurance quote had been, and mine was cheaper than yours! I have also never had any sort of accident and have been driving for 15 years. Therefore, as we have similar driving records and i am a woman, my insurance will be cheaper than yours because being a woman, i represent a lower risk than you do. This is because women are safer and better drivers than men!

Posted by Holly at 2006/08/29 24:27:14.

And so, the endless circle continues ...

Posted by Robbo at 2006/08/29 18:36:00.

Holly, here's an analogy for you which uses your own logic. Mr Happy never crashed a plane last year. In fact, Mr Happy has never crashed a plane in his life. Actually, Mr Happy has never flown a plane in his life, and probably never will. Mr Angry, on the other hand, has flown for thirty years, and will probably do so for another thirty years. Over this time, Mr Angry has flown hundreds of thousands of miles, and had only one crash (which he and his passengers survived). But, Mr Happy must be the better pilot because Mr Happy has NEVER CRASHED a plane. This makes Mr Angry very angry.

Also, I don't like playing football. In fact, I hate it, so I don't bother. So, on the very rare occasions I did when I was forced to at school, I used to go in goal so I could put as little effort in as possible. I reckon throughout the space of my life, I've probably let in no more than twenty goals. Now, I will guarantee you that there will not be a goalkeeper in the Premiership who can honestly say that he has let in less than twenty goals in his WHOLE LIFE. The fact that the amount of time I have spent on a football pitch is a mere fraction of theirs is immaterial. I'M THE BETTER GOALIE BECAUSE I'VE LET LESS GOALS IN!! I think I'll get down to Old Trafford on Saturday and show them how great I am, and (if they're lucky) accept a twenty million pound contract. How could they possibly refuse me, once I point out the 'facts' and how great I am, according to Holly's (arrogant, ignorant, misinformed, prejudiced, stupid, sexist) logic?

As you're so keen on facts, Holly, let me REMIND (I have pointed these out previously) you of some:

FACT: There are more men drivers than women ones. So, there are more men to have driving accidents.

FACT: Men drivers travel further than women ones. So there is more opportunity for the men drivers (of which there are MORE, remember?) to have accidents.

FACT: The number of women moving into jobs which involve driving is increasing. For instance, more women are driving lorries now than used to be the case. As these numbers increase, so, too, will the number of serious accidents caused by women.

And some more:

FACT: Don't try to be selective with facts when you get on your high horse, because you will get knocked back off it. Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that you are arrogant and close-minded enough to persist that you didn't get knocked off it even as you lay sprawled in a pile of horse shit with a bloody nose.

FACT: (As we are so keen on sweeping statements around here) Most men argue logically ('Well, men are better because ...') and use science and reason. Most women, on the other hand, argue emotionally ('I just AM better') and cry like six year olds until they get their own way, and then have the cheek to demand equality and respect. This is why Holly will never accept what I, Paul, or any other man, says to her - she has her own language and just filters out anything else. (Notice that I wrote 'most women' - I'm neither arrogant nor ignorant enough to apply a single trait, no matter how despicable or honourable, to a whole sex, as seems to be the fashion round here)

FACT: Diamond Insurance was formed by Admiral, which was in turn created by a man called Henry Englhart. Sheila's Wheels, on the other hand, is part of the HBOS Group, in which only three of the fourteen directors are women. See girls, no matter how hard you try to declare your independence, and prove that you are better, the fact of the matter is that by chucking money into Diamond and Sheila's Wheels to prove your point, you are just really lining the pockets of a bunch of men who were sharp enough to spot a gullible audience.

FACT: Holly, you cannot say that you represent less of a risk than Paul (or any man for that matter) without comparing your vehicles. Or do you really believe that a woman driving a Bugatti Veyron (the most powerful street-legal car in the world, with a top speed of 253 mph) is safer than a man in a 1-litre Nissan Micra? Please, do tell.

Posted by Robbo at 2006/08/29 20:21:13.

Robo, I totally agree and have repeated exactly what you have said to Holly plenty of times myself. At the end of the day it is wasted breath simply because as you say, she is arrogant, ignorant, misinformed, prejudiced, stupid, sexist and quite frankly - pathetic

In fact, she already knows that she is arguing a lost cause. However, she continues simply to bait us and to have the last entry on this forum. I am now goint to put this to the test....

Holly now has the chance of showing me that I am wrong by accepting the FACTS that we have both shown her and by never posting anything else on this forum again. (Exspecially as the debate has now been ruled in mens favour)

Or alternatively she can show us all that i am right by posting another pointless argumentative, stupid comment just to get that last word in.

Lets see.....

Posted by Paul at 2006/08/30 07:35:42.

I wonder if Paul is committed to do what he wanted me to do. Will he want to have the last word, or can he resist and just let poor little pathetic me have the last word. I wonder, this will be interesting......

Posted by Holly at 2006/08/30 24:15:47.

Im afraid your double twister "lets try to turn this round on you" comments won't work with me Holly! The only interesting thing going on here is that you have (as predicted) proved my point exactly.

So ho ahead, just for the cheap seats.... post another stupid commemt. I know you're dying to. Well, in fact, i know your going to because now your not the last to post a comment here.... I am!

Posted by Paul at 2006/08/30 22:50:02.

Surprise, surprise!!!!

Paul isn't prepared to practice what he preaches!
At the end of the day he is simply not prepared to let a woman have the last word over him. Also, isn't it clever of him to take the conversation away from the real subject. He has run out of arguments and doesn't want to admit that women are better drivers and get cheaper premiums than men. But all us girls already know that.
Remind me, how many car insurance companies are 'men only' or focus on men?
Then how many do focus on women or are 'women only'?
I wonder if he will answer my question.

Posted by Holly at 2006/08/31 11:42:21.

Well, I guess im proved right once again!

To answer your question, please read my earlier post dated 18:16, Monday 03 July 06. I believe it was covered back then.

This is the reason I have changed the subject Holly, because its you that has nothing left to argue. Its all been said by you before and proved to be bollocks!

I suggest if you want to keep this debate open, try finding some new facts or another point of view. In the mean time, and just so we can all laugh at you some more, stick another pointless comment after mine!

Posted by Paul at 2006/08/31 14:08:13.

Here's another fact which just adds even more muscle to the fact that women are better drivers than men. In the last year women's average car insurance premium has fallen from 712 to 654 pounds whilst men's have fallen from 974 to 958 pounds. Women have experienced a greater reduction in car nsurance costs, so we are getting better drivers than men as we speak!

Posted by Holly at 2006/08/31 21:46:27.