Saving Places

Posted on 2004/09/17 10:23:15 (September 2004) by john.

I think we need some standardisation here.

Recently this issue has played on my mind a bit (one of the many wholly pointless things that goes on in there) to the extent that I think it is worthy of discussion. What I'm hoping for is to reach some kind of consensus on a set of social rules for "saving places".

Whilst in Barcelona, I seemed to spend quite a lot of time queueing for things, not typically my favourite of pastimes. As an aside, I was pleasantly surprised that the Spanish, or at least the Catalonians, do seem to have a healthy respect for queueing, unlike some of their other European counterparts I could mention. Anyway, I was often queuing with Chie, and it would on occasion happen that one or the other of us needed to go to the toilet, or get a drink or whatever. So in this situation it seems widely accepted that one of you stays in the queue, and the other person goes off to do whatever they need to do, then they can rejoin the queue at their original place. Fine.

However, there are on occasion situations where people haven't yet partaken of any queueing, and then suddenly join it half way down because a "friend" of theirs is already at this point. This is particularly annoying where the person already in the queue "just happened to be there", rather than the two protagonists (the original person queueing and the person barging in) having originally planned to go to this event/place together. Quite often I remember this happening when queuing outside clubs and the like. You'd be there queueing for what felt like hours, often imposed by the dreaded "one in, one out" rule, and then all of a sudden a couple of blokes would push in some way ahead of you, because their (alleged) mate Jim was already queueing there. Indeed you'd often see these hateful interlopers walking up and down the queue to see if there was anyone they could pretend they vaguely knew to supposedly legitimise their blatant flouting of queueing etiquette. Now I'll be the first person to admit there could be double standards here. I don't ever recall having pushed into a queue in this fashion, but I'm sure that in the future, should it ever happen that, under extenuating circumstances, I might allow my queue position to be elevated by some trick of this nature, I'd just think "Oh aren't I cheeky?". Whereas clearly when anyone else does it, it's more along the lines of "You selfish bastard.".

Let me give you another example of indecision over queuing etiquette. In the supermarket the other day, I realised I had picked up the wrong jar of pasta sauce, or something. So I went back to the shelf to change it. I wholly expected I would have to go to the back when I rejoined the queue (which had a fair few people in it) but surprisingly the bloke who was previously behind me beckoned me to come and retake my original position. I accepted, but was left unclear as to whether or not I had just comitted a queuing faux pas.

Then there's seats on trains. There seems to be no proper system in this country for queuing where seats on trains are concerned. People just crowd on the platform in no particular order, and it seems to be pretty random in the end who actually gets a seat - largely whoever happened to be closest to the door when the train pulls to a stop. Perhaps you could argue that in this situation, those more determined to get a seat are more likely to, and that priority seats etc mean that old ladies and so on can hang around menacingly and guilt trip you into giving up your hard fought seat afterwards.

This brings me nicely onto my next area of confusion as regards saving places for people. Yesterday I was yet again flummoxed on how to react in a situation as regards saving a place for someone. In this case it was saving a seat on a train rather than a place in a queue, but much of the same logic applies. Having boarded a train at Birmingham around rush hour, when it was predicatbly very busy, I was crafty enough to secure myself a seat. Shortly afterwards a gentleman from the West Midlands came along, asked if the seat next to me was taken, and following my reply sat down. Once the train had started moving, he said he was going to the buffet and asked if I would save his seat for him. I presumed he would be back in a couple of minutes, but after 10 minutes or so, he hadn't returned, and we were at the next stop. The people getting on didn't actually ask if the seat was taken, as he'd left no bags behind or anything, so two people in succession just tried to sit down there, and I then had to tell them as politely as I could that someone was sitting there. This obviously got me some snotty looks and huffy noises, as without any actual evidence of someone occupying that seat it probably looked like I was just being anti-social... and besides even if someone was "sitting there" he clearly wasn't in technical terms, as at that particular moment in time the seat was empty...

...Anyway, we passed several more stations, and I gradually grew tired of warding people off, as the West Midlands bloke still had not returned. Eventually a woman sat down, again without asking if the seat was taken, and I just gave up, assuming the original bloke had found somewhere else to sit, or had been eaten by wolves on the way back from the buffet or something. Predicatbly then five minutes later he returned saying, in a now slightly camp and amusing voice "Oooh I thought you were saving my seat for me.", and after a short awkward discussion in which he reassured the woman now sitting there she could keep the seat, he finished, slightly tongue in cheek, by saying to the woman "He's not trustworty you know.". He was generally making a joke out of it, but not actually knowing him it was a bit hard to tell whether this was his entirely joking tone of voice, or his slightly joking, but actually slightly pissed off tone of voice. He passed by again a while later, and reminded the woman siting next to me "He's a cheater, you know, he said he'd save my place for me."... And then finally towards the end of the journey, when a further different woman had taken up the place he passed again and said "Oooh, you've got a new girlfriend now."... which must have been odd for the new passenger sitting next to me, who had no knowledge of the preceeding incident at all. When the West Midlands bloke eventually got off the train he actually waved to me from the platform, I guess a sort of "no hard feelings" kind of wave.

All in all I think he was just being funny really, he seemed like a nice bloke. Still though, it did highlight the uncertainty inherent in this kind of situation. Having started with good intentions, I actually ended up offending every individual involved, if you think about it. The guy was offended because I didn't save his seat. The people I'd shoed away were evidently offended because they too wanted to sit down there but weren't allowed. The woman who eventually did sit down was made to feel awkward because she thought she had stolen someone's seat, and the second woman who sat there would have just been plain confused, and was probably a feminist and objected to being labelled as some stranger's "girlfriend".

Okay, well, I think I have strayed from the point, if there ever was one. But to summarise, I think these kind of social situations need thinking through, and the correct courses of action need mapping out and documenting to save future generations the unbearable social horror brought about by these kind of travesties of etiquette.

what you need John is a disclaimer. A pre-printed card that you carry in your wallet or jacket or whatever so when someone asks 'can you save my seat please', you just say 'Yes' and hand them the card.

"The continution of belongingness for this particular seat or chair cannot be guarenteed and no warrenties or reprepresentation on my behalf according to the temporary ownship rights
of previously said chair or seat in the future are in no way permanent, You should also be aware that in the event of a subsequent challenge to the ownership
of a chair or seat the situation will be jugded my myself as to the potential consequence of denial of ownership."

Posted by Kev at 2004/09/18 18:21:14.

....When challenged by such situations I always try to act awckward. I mean you can start talking to yourself, pretend to have a bad cough, scratch your balls... whatever! It usually works as people are then challenged by the dilemma of sitting next to an ill wierdo or hope for a place in the next carriage... If they are stubborn then you can say that the place is taken, they won't mind anyways as it was a second choice seat in the first instance...

Posted by Lox at 2004/09/29 15:18:25.

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