Ciao Ragazzi!! I am writing from rainy Japan, I am starting to worry about a possible jinx that has been cast on me... Wherever I go it seems to be raining!! :(
Anyways... better go now, speak to you later! Ciao ciao
Lox
- Sun Oct 31 03:59:04 2004

 John, how did the movie do in the UK? I'm pretty surprised that so many people saw it and liked it over here.
Travis
- Fri Oct 29 22:47:43 2004

 '`>
www.funreal.terka.ru
- Fri Oct 29 22:35:56 2004

 Travis - I agree it was a bit slow in places, in fact once it got to about half way through it had pretty much peaked and didn't have much further to go so it did tend to tail off a bit from there. I think some of the slow bits were typically English though. As I think me and Rob discussed at the time, it is a downright excellent film for showcasing English culture - if I wanted to demonstrate to anyone what life is like in England, I would struggle to find a better film to do it. Obviously the plague of zombies and widespread death and destruction does muddy the waters a bit, but if you look beyond that it is a surprisingly sharp observation of English life.
John
- Fri Oct 29 15:30:24 2004

 Usually when we export English comedy, we rather arrogantly suggest that the humour is too subtle or intellectual for people in other countries to understand. However, I'm pleased to admit my favourite parts of Shaun of the Dead were generally those where the main character beats zombies about the head with a cricket bat. No danger of anything "high brow" round there!
John
- Fri Oct 29 15:21:59 2004

 On a very different and extremely surreal note "Find the TREASURE" http://www.nanahiro.com/compe/main.html
Kev
- Fri Oct 29 14:36:07 2004

 Shaun of the Dead from an American's POV: Very funny, well-acted, but slow at times. I can't imagine that most Americans liked it as much as I did (though they seem to have) because part of my enjoyment was the music: Queen, Smiths, New Order all mentioned or played in a film? Amazing.
Travis
- Fri Oct 29 13:13:24 2004

 John, the recipe varies here a lot, too. It's generally 4 or 5 shots plus a splash of 'sour mix'. Sometimes it has cola in it...almost always yummy.
Travis
- Fri Oct 29 13:11:32 2004

 Thanks for your job, I found lots of useful info.
leo
- Fri Oct 29 12:08:52 2004

 I thought it was truly fantastic.
Rob Lang
- Fri Oct 29 11:59:35 2004

 Hey apparently Shaun (Shawn?) of the Dead is out on DVD now. Was that not one of the greatest cinematic spectacles of all time (despite going downhill a bit towards the end)....?
John
- Fri Oct 29 10:15:39 2004

 Alfie, no. Haven't seen it. I can't think who you mean about Highmead - perhaps the one with the 'kid'? Might now go on your recommendation. Don't think Kate will want to see it unless there are Zombies being beheaded by an axe.
Rob Lang
- Fri Oct 29 10:03:58 2004

 Rob - you haven't by any chance been to see Alfie have you? I was dragged along on Tuesday but actually quite enjoyed it. I couldn't help but be reminded of a certain former Highmead resident...
John
- Fri Oct 29 09:42:03 2004

 Yea we have long island ice teas here too, although I suspect the recipe varies wildly. If I recall correctly bourbon and white rum were constituents in the no doubt poor quality imitation we get in England.
John
- Fri Oct 29 09:27:38 2004

 I once had a friend in America, a long time ago, and when I went to visit her, bless her, she'd gone out and bought some "English beer" - Harp. I'd like to say I didn't have the heart to tell her it was in fact Irish, but actually I probably did wind her up about it. You don't see much Harp over here these days, which is almost a shame actually, because as lagers go I recall it being not too bad.
John
- Fri Oct 29 09:23:44 2004

 A recent picture of me, feigning a smile, to prove that I do not have the aviation fuel look. More like Mad Dog (incredibly foul, incredibly cheap wine). http://ewert.us/photogalleries/phil/DSC0001.JPG
travis
- Thu Oct 28 21:41:31 2004

 John, my drink of choice is no longer aviation fuel. I actually drink beer...but only Guinness, Paulaner, Newcastle, and sometimes Harp (in that order of preference). I'm a fan of Jagermeister if it's a shot we'll have and if a mixed drink, I'm a huge fan of long island iced teas (dunno what you call 'em) and anything mixed with diet soda.
Travis
- Thu Oct 28 21:39:24 2004

 I thought I'd put the link in to Jimmy's toilet in the corner, just in case he can't rememeber how to get there next time. I mean we don't want any accidents. :)
kev
- Thu Oct 28 17:13:27 2004

 Is that really you Kev? That link looks a tad suspicious...
John
- Thu Oct 28 17:09:03 2004

 http://www.rokytnice.com/ilona/a_koupelna2_l.jpg
Kev
- Thu Oct 28 16:30:03 2004

 Did you remember to wash your hands afterwards?
John
- Thu Oct 28 15:33:26 2004

 don't worry, I found it (over there in the corner).
Jimmy
- Thu Oct 28 13:11:54 2004

 'afternoon all! Where's the toilet?
Jimmy
- Thu Oct 28 13:00:57 2004

 You know how people sometimes look like the drink they prefer. Mum is definitely a Sherry type. Alex is an Expensive-Wine-by-the-vat. Dad is a Cheap-wine-but-bought-abroad-so-it-must-be-good person. John, you look like a Whiskey person but with shorter sideburns and no beard. I always thought Travis looked like an "aviation fuel" person.
Rob Lang
- Thu Oct 28 11:12:28 2004

 What's your drink of choice then Travis, if beer doesn't sit too well with you...? Are you, per chance, a gin and tonic kind of a guy...?
John
- Thu Oct 28 09:41:16 2004

 Home brew, eh? My body is fairly unreceptive to many beer(s?) so I can hardly imagine trying something cooked up in some guy's basement or what have you. I know there are some big microbrewery festivals around the US, but I would be afraid to try 'em.
Travis
- Thu Oct 28 02:18:47 2004

 good website! keep up http://www.turklines.com
transport <logistics@transort.tr>
europe, europe - Thu Oct 28 01:38:39 2004

 That's a good theory you have there. I think you may be right.
dsp
- Wed Oct 27 17:14:10 2004

 I think it was variable - there were good batches and bad batches. The good batches were highly drinkable... although I suppose the bad batches were a bit like disinfectant, yes. Still though, the simple fact that it even existed, good or bad, was enough for me. Didn't they keep them in the same little cubby hole of Radstock where we had a dark room for a time? I'd always secretly suspected they were either accidentally or deliberately "pepped up" with some developing chemicals.
John
- Wed Oct 27 16:43:41 2004

 Yes, I do, tim! It was hilarious. Tasted like disinfectant but they still drunk it!
Rob lang
- Wed Oct 27 16:23:02 2004

 Do you remember Simon and Gary's home brew? There will always be a special place in my heart for it.
dsp
- Wed Oct 27 16:11:18 2004

 In the case of Pizza vs Spatula (1994). It was a wooden spatula that was used to prise a partially-burnt pizza from a baking tray. The spatula lost.
dsp
- Wed Oct 27 16:10:34 2004

 Or - god help us - some kind of porcelain...?
John
- Wed Oct 27 16:07:27 2004

 What kind of spatulas were they? Wood, metal, plastic...?
John
- Wed Oct 27 15:52:38 2004

 Sadly no. We all moved away and lost touch. Funny, I was just thinking about those get togethers the other day. They tended to involve heavy amounts of pizza. In particular, I remember an evening where we all became distraught over spatula damage.
dsp
- Wed Oct 27 15:50:43 2004

 Top marks on covert use of a Pythonism there Tim. Incidentally, do you ever of reunion meetings of the Disciples of Ni....?
John
- Wed Oct 27 15:30:05 2004

 No thanks, I've already got one. (I told him we've already got one! - snigger snigger)
dsp
- Wed Oct 27 11:48:53 2004

 Actually I was thinking of setting up a rival internet banking system called paygirlfriend. Every time you use it to pay for something over the internet, it has a right go at you, and complains that you really ought to be saving money for that house / holiday / wedding.
John
- Wed Oct 27 10:58:46 2004

 I have no paypal account. I've considered opening one...and might do so soon. I'm interested in others' thoughts as well.
Travis
- Tue Oct 26 16:22:16 2004

 I have a paypal account, and I use it quite a lot for buying stuff off ebay. I'm wary of letting any money build up in it though, i withdraw it as soon as possible. It's also pretty expensive to recieve money (but free to send it).
graf
- Tue Oct 26 12:54:47 2004

 Is anyone else finding today as tedious as I am...? Or am I in a localised tedious cloud....?
John
- Tue Oct 26 12:49:38 2004

 I opened one ages and ages ago but have never used it.
John
- Tue Oct 26 10:18:29 2004

 Quick poll: Have the Maison regulars all got a PayPal account for one reason or the other? What are peoples feelings about PayPal? Any good/bad experiences?
dsp
- Tue Oct 26 09:59:09 2004

 Mmmm... Vodka Boom Boom
dsp
- Tue Oct 26 09:51:22 2004

 Sorry, "go" in that classic (probably misquoted) Homer quote there should almost certainly read "going".
John
- Tue Oct 26 09:37:43 2004

 There's a definite progression isn't there...? You start off with sneaky parties whenever your parents are out, then you get your own place and gravitate to glorious wild, impromptu parties, then you go through a phase of fairly staged and heavily planned parties trying to imitate those wild parties of yesteryear, then you settle for a having a few "select" friends over for some drinks, and before you know it you're folding napkins and arranging cutlery to have the Jenkinses round for dinner.
I'm not go to let you people hold me back any more: I'm going to clown college!
John
- Tue Oct 26 09:20:56 2004

 No we don't tend to do much for Halloween round these parts. Personally I'm of the "any excuse for a party" persuasion, but unfortunately now all of us are grown up and sensible, nobody lives in a house that they (or more importantly their girlfriends/wives) are happy to get trashed any more. It's a shame - it feel like years since I've been to a decent party!
John
- Tue Oct 26 09:11:53 2004

 You lazy sods do anything special for Halloween? The town I currently call home doesn't seem all that interested. I'm throwing two parties, just got through doing some jackolanterns, set up some decorations to scare the bejesus out of would-be trick-or-treaters. Halloween rules.
Travis
- Tue Oct 26 01:55:54 2004

 Driving through plagues of locusts is easy. It's the rivers of blood you have to look out for! Of couse, you get signs which read "Warning: river of blood ahead" and then another which says "Now test your brakes" when you get to the other side.
Jimmy
- Mon Oct 25 14:52:51 2004

 I think everyone would agree that driving is definitely a practise thing. After loads of practise, you don't really wrestle with the car anymore (unless it was my van), you more look out for other idiots on the road. Except Mum who watches out for speed cameras, power lines, towers and other aircraft.
Rob Lang
- Mon Oct 25 13:17:10 2004

 I only drove as far as Guildford, the weather was fine actually, but I still found it surprisingly hard work. I don't think I'm cut out for this driving lark! (P.S. I went around *several* corners in third gear).
John
- Mon Oct 25 12:45:31 2004

 I would love nothing more than to be perusing the highway code one day, and find the section on "how to drive through a plague of locusts".
John
- Mon Oct 25 12:42:46 2004

 Well, I did do that... What did you do, John? Go driving in the biblical weather?
Rob Lang
- Mon Oct 25 10:26:34 2004

 Sorry, clearly that should read carbon dioxide.
John
- Mon Oct 25 10:06:20 2004

 I bet you produced carbon monoxide, as well as water, salts and urea.
John
- Mon Oct 25 10:05:55 2004

 Mine was ok, not very productive, though.
Rob Lang
- Mon Oct 25 09:45:52 2004

 So, did everyone have good weekends?
John
- Mon Oct 25 09:37:27 2004

 I think this proves my point about Italian being such a nice sounding language - Distruttore Totale sounds like a tasty and sophisticated pasta dish.
John
- Sat Oct 23 14:32:52 2004

 That's nice work Tom!
dsp
- Sat Oct 23 10:14:13 2004

 just watched Waynes World - bought both number 1 and 2 today for a tenner - BARGAIN...i saw them, and thought to myself, "They will be mine. Oh yes, they will be mine..."
Chris Rowan
- Sat Oct 23 03:04:03 2004

 I want missle launchers on my shoulders.
tom
- Fri Oct 22 17:00:30 2004

 "Distruttore Totale"... it had 2 missiles launchers on the shoulders, a massive blade clutched in its right hand and a pistol in the left one... Thinking of it the blade might have been a bit useless but the effect was grand!
Lox
- Fri Oct 22 16:19:05 2004

 Lox: "how comes I become a bloody economist?!?" -- because you are a tight-wad? What is Italian for "total annihalator"? Is it "Destructorino grande"?
dsp
- Fri Oct 22 16:12:00 2004

 AHAHAHAHAH I didn't think about it in that way, nevertheless it is nice!
Lox
- Fri Oct 22 15:56:24 2004

 Lox, your post below reads like a very strange dialogue!
Rob Lang
- Fri Oct 22 15:27:59 2004

 John: No, "total annihilators" was their names.. If memory serves of course...
Tom: It could be one of the reasons....
Rob: AHA! Exactely my point, our Lego is by far more stylish and definiately less sloppy... :)
Lox
- Fri Oct 22 15:13:48 2004

 Of course, Italian Lego was much better than our CRAPPA English Lego.
Rob Lang
- Fri Oct 22 15:01:54 2004

 Too much salt in the pasta?
tom
- Fri Oct 22 15:00:07 2004

 Were they accountant and financial advisor robots...?
John
- Fri Oct 22 14:57:11 2004

 Actually I was building robots... I wonder what went wrong with me and WHEN?!? :(
Lox
- Fri Oct 22 14:55:34 2004

 So Lorenzo, when we were busy building houses and spaceships, were you building banks and stock exchanges?
John
- Fri Oct 22 14:48:05 2004

 Thanks Jill!! I will leave tomorrow afternoon, I hope that the next typhoon that they are waiting next week won't be too strong... Still I am sure that'll be a good trip, I absolutely love that place, I am probably going to see my host-family too (I lived with them for 1 year and we still catch up every now and then)!
Lox
- Fri Oct 22 14:36:26 2004

 Lox; hope you enjoy your trip to Japan.
Mad Mumsie
- Fri Oct 22 14:29:01 2004

 John: I agree, for example the amount of words that we have to describe feelings is quite big, whereas English and German are rather "arid" under that point of view... I really wonder sometimes what happened during renaissance in Florence...
Dsp: Interesting... I loved LEGO when I was a kid, I love computers and tecnology, how comes I become a bloody economist?!?
Lox
- Fri Oct 22 13:59:05 2004

 Interesting. (Favoutire toy: lego.)
tom
- Fri Oct 22 13:57:35 2004

 I was reading about Lego in childhood links to programmers in adulthood. Lego is infact a language. It is unambiguous. Bricks connect or do not (boolean/syntactic). The impose a pixelated, mathematical view of the world. And the bricks are meaningless by themselves until they are applied to a problem, just as is a programming language. Given a selection of programmers, a high percentage will rave about lego as a favourite childhood toy.
dsp
- Fri Oct 22 13:54:24 2004

 Make the most of it Tom, you can still say, oh no I can't do that I'm merely a CI!!
Mad Mumsie
- Fri Oct 22 13:33:54 2004

 Thanks Rob. I'm the only CI - the rest are uniformed staff, And I'm half rupert I guess!
tom
- Fri Oct 22 13:28:18 2004

 What is C++ good for?
tom
- Fri Oct 22 13:27:28 2004

 No, tom, but have a great time!
Rob Lang
- Fri Oct 22 13:27:18 2004

 I was having a conversation just yesterday, probably whilst drunk, about how the language you learn shapes the way you think. In my opinion, Germans and British people make good engineers in part because our languages are very matter-of-fact and to-the-point. On the other hand French and Italian I would say lend themselves better to artistic and creative pursuits. The French are particularly good at circumlocuting. Take for example "Qu'est-ce qu'il se passe", which we tend to translate as "What happened?", but if you translate literally comes out more like "What is this, that which has happened?". Interestingly, go back to Latin and you find a very well mapped out and logical language, well suited to engineering and sciences (take plant names). However, somewhere along the line you Italians tarted it up into the flowery poetic language it is today.
John
- Fri Oct 22 13:20:25 2004

 You are right tommy-boy, I HATE living in a place full of "designers" and "creative minds"... How about the old maths and logic !?!
Lox
- Fri Oct 22 12:58:18 2004

 This explains a lot.
tom
- Fri Oct 22 12:48:13 2004

 In Italy the use of punctuation is not regulated by any grammatical rules, it's a matter of style. We could say that today you were feeling "creative", and here in pizzaland everyone would regard you as a GOD...
Lox
- Fri Oct 22 12:47:25 2004

 This weekend (0700 at reading station!) I depart for Windermere for the Wing expedition. You sending any kdets along Rob? If so, any sh*ts to watch out for!!?
tom
- Fri Oct 22 12:45:51 2004

 A double decker vitell? A huge bottle!
tom
- Fri Oct 22 12:44:54 2004

 Yea, some commas would have been nice.
John
- Fri Oct 22 10:15:58 2004

 My breakfast today consisted of: Smoky Bacon Crisps Double Decker Vittel
John
- Fri Oct 22 10:12:05 2004

 Hey I got Cake's latest album (Pressure Chief) last night, and am listening to it. The first track - Wheels - is uber funky.
John
- Fri Oct 22 09:32:11 2004

 Whatever floats your boat, Robster.
John
- Fri Oct 22 09:31:09 2004

 John, just you mate. I spent the evening watching cadets bundle each other in the dark.
Rob Lang
- Fri Oct 22 09:29:47 2004

 For some reason the time me and you sat in Cholmeley Road knocking back shots of gin springs to mind Andy.
John
- Fri Oct 22 09:26:09 2004

 I have (A) but am not planning (B), but we'll see how it goes...
Graf
- Fri Oct 22 09:17:13 2004

 Hurrah - its Friday, and I'm off to Somerset next week with the cadets. Still I'm sure I shall escape from them for a few hours here and there.
Mad Mumsie
- Fri Oct 22 09:12:39 2004

 ...I suspect there's a reasonable chance it could be just me!
John
- Fri Oct 22 09:04:49 2004

 Is there anyone else who (A) has a hangover and (B) is planning to go on another fairly heavy duty session tonight...?
John
- Fri Oct 22 09:04:30 2004

 Anything in a little stabd-alone plastic box with ethernet ports wins my vote.
John
- Thu Oct 21 15:23:34 2004

 Like this one: http://linitx.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_52&products_id=109&osCsid=4a94dc64456b45ffc44c73de083753eb
dsp
- Thu Oct 21 14:48:19 2004

 Congrats on the gig Andy. Any jobs you need to delegate for the wedding?
dsp
- Thu Oct 21 14:39:22 2004

 I have a Wifi Modem/Router box with built-in firewall, it allows virtual servers to, which is great. Agree about the hardware bit. Did you know you can put a linux installation of IPCop on a compact flash only PC? A solid state PC, now that's nice.
dsp
- Thu Oct 21 14:38:59 2004

 I remember your router it's a very cool piece of hardware... Thanks for the info I'll pass it on to him..
Lox
- Thu Oct 21 14:33:11 2004

 I'm doing ok, thanks for asking Mr dsp. A bit busy what with organising the wedding and stuff, but doing OK. Oh and I'm doing a gig next week, so I have to practice for that too.
Graf
- Thu Oct 21 14:32:35 2004

 ZoneAlarm is cheap as chips (i.e. free). Not sure if it does enterprise-wide firewalling or if it is just a single machine jobby. In my opinions though, the best firewalls of all are hardware, not software. The lower level and more physically detachable it is, the better. My ADSL modem/router/switch thingie has a simple firewall in it, which basically just stops all inbound connections unless you explicitly allow them. What more do you need....? Plus something makes me feel warm inside that it is a physically separate box which can't be affected by any rogueish software running on Windows.
John
- Thu Oct 21 14:22:01 2004

 Speaking of firewalls, what do you recommend for a laptop (P3 1ghz, 512mb ram) used to dwld with p2p clients? I keep telling this friend that p2p clients keep open doors which can be used to enter one's PC, but he reckons that intruders can be blocked with the correct software...
Lox
- Thu Oct 21 13:57:19 2004

 Thanks Graf, I'll have a look. ps. How are you?
dsp
- Thu Oct 21 13:36:30 2004

 For a cheap firewall, you could use IPCop (from www.ipcop.org) on an old PC. I'm sure it's not as fully featured as Firewall 1, but it might be sufficient for your needs. It's what we used where I work for a while (although i believe we don't any more).
Graf
- Thu Oct 21 13:31:07 2004

 No. You email me with your email address - I don't have it. tom d0t rowan AT ultimabusiness d0t com
tom
- Thu Oct 21 13:07:27 2004

 Tom: How much is a lot of wonga? You can email if commercially sensitive. Are there any other firewall on a shoe-string / open-source alternatives?
dsp
- Thu Oct 21 13:03:54 2004

 (That is of course, if I pass the Region Board).
tom
- Thu Oct 21 13:01:57 2004

 It will be odd not being one anymore.
tom
- Thu Oct 21 13:01:40 2004

 Never forget your roots - remember CIs run the ATC, and as one Flt Lt was heard to remark " CIs are a necessary evil". His funeral was something to behold!!
Mad Mumsie
- Thu Oct 21 11:38:17 2004

 Thanks CI MM :-)
tom
- Thu Oct 21 11:22:22 2004

 Lots of wonga.
tom
- Thu Oct 21 11:22:02 2004

 Tom: That sounded painful.
dsp
- Thu Oct 21 10:53:58 2004

 Tom: Pop Quiz. What would an installation of CheckPoint cost me (as a business customer - suppose) to protect upto, say, 50 PCs, with a three zones (one as a DMZ). Plus what would ongoing support costs be? What spec box would you recommend?
dsp
- Thu Oct 21 10:22:25 2004

 Wing Board? Is it something to do with flying?
Lox
- Thu Oct 21 10:13:30 2004

 Should have read "ever call you"
Mad Mumsie
- Thu Oct 21 09:25:36 2004

 Congratulations Sir. (And that's the last time I will every callyou Sir)
Mad Mumsie
- Thu Oct 21 09:25:06 2004

 Congratulations Tom! Does that mean you're an officer now...?
John
- Thu Oct 21 09:11:32 2004

 Passed my Wing Board.
tom
- Thu Oct 21 09:03:58 2004

 G'morning Vietnam!
Lox
- Thu Oct 21 08:53:37 2004

 Congratulations Timmyboy and Clare! Don't buy half the stuff you think you need for the first couple of months. You'll be given most ot it. If people ask what to get you, tell them 3-6 months, or 6-9 months. You'll have all the newborn sized stuff you need anyway. Welldone sir - proves you're not a jaffa!
tom
- Thu Oct 21 07:09:34 2004

 Will it involve male chicken's rear feathers at all?
tom
- Thu Oct 21 07:07:30 2004

 off to a cocktail part tonight...but....I'M NOT DRINKING.....:-?
Chris Rowan
- Wed Oct 20 18:43:43 2004

 I'll have one of our sales team draw you up a quote Tim.
John
- Wed Oct 20 17:00:39 2004

 John: Clare does quite like Bradley, but prefers Veggie Cat-Lovin' Snitch Boy. Any subsidies available for that name?
dsp
- Wed Oct 20 16:57:17 2004

 Now that would be news. You'd have to stop drinking though.
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 16:44:31 2004

 John CONGRATULATIONS!! Does YOUR baby communicate through teletext on the echograph display?
Lox
- Wed Oct 20 16:44:03 2004

 Yeah, John, are YOU pregnant?
Rob Lang
- Wed Oct 20 16:39:31 2004

 Errrrrr... Girly talks? Mmmm I am getting worried 'bout you Johnny-boy!!!! :) :) :)
Lox
- Wed Oct 20 16:28:44 2004

 Tim: congratulations to the both of you...! Have you approached Clare yet with the Bradley/Bradlietta question...?
Incidentally, on the subject of me influencing other people's baby names, a woman at work has just had a baby. A while back we had a girly chat about baby names, and I said I loved the name Amelie (obviously inspired in part by the film). I've just discovered she has actually chosen this for the baby's name... although I'm sure when asked she'll claim she thought of it all by herself! (Incidentally, before anyone goes insinuating anything, no I'm not the father).
John
- Wed Oct 20 16:27:24 2004

 No, you mentioned "peak"
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 16:19:18 2004

 Mad mumsie: Do you mean a metaphoric mountain?
dsp
- Wed Oct 20 16:11:21 2004

 dsp: which mountain are you going to climb then?
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 16:07:16 2004

 Well they (read: female counterpart) always prevail in this sort of things... My sister DIDN'T want to know and her husband wanted but have a guess who won? Also another couple that I know had pretty much the same issue and in the end the "mother to be" got her way... Oh well :)
Lox
- Wed Oct 20 16:06:01 2004

 Rob: We don't currently know, but we're booked in for radar at the end of next week. I would like the surprise because of the gambling opportunities, however, Clare want to know. I think that cooler heads will prevail, and we'll peak at the present, so to speak.
dsp
- Wed Oct 20 15:55:57 2004

 Thanks MM!
dsp
- Wed Oct 20 15:54:18 2004

 Thanks guys! John had already promised £500 for the baby if we call him Bradley (Bradlietta for a girl). I think that was very nice of him and represents a good return on my £1 investment.
dsp
- Wed Oct 20 15:53:52 2004

 dsp: hehehehehehehe, hahahahahahaha, hohohohohohoho. Then your troubles will really start. You thought you had problems before - you wait until May. Nonetheless, many congratulations to you both.
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 15:53:04 2004

 Isn't the English language strange. When I read "when is the wife due" I thought she'd been away somewhere. AND I DO object to "the wife". Surely in this case it should be "your wife".
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 15:51:10 2004

 CONGARTULATIONSSSSSSSS Mr. Hastings!!!!! Do you have a name already? Do fill us in with all the details!!! I hope you are not going to call the child "Bradley" though...
Lox
- Wed Oct 20 15:45:20 2004

 DSP! Congratulations, Sir!!! Do you know what it is? Boy/Girl/Mac/PC?
Rob Lang
- Wed Oct 20 15:40:05 2004

 Estute as ever Tom, in May ;-)
dsp
- Wed Oct 20 15:29:12 2004

 And dsp is asking too many questions. When is the wife due mate??! ;-)
tom
- Wed Oct 20 15:26:29 2004

 John: will there ever be a StuffKid?
tom
- Wed Oct 20 15:26:00 2004

 We thought about Bailey, Zack and a few others. Bailey would be cool, but he'd only drink the stuff saying "It had my name on it dad".
tom
- Wed Oct 20 15:25:32 2004

 John's first baby is likely to be called Redhat.
Rob Lang
- Wed Oct 20 15:12:28 2004

 No she's not, she's 14 months old.
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 15:11:44 2004

 Her name is Bethan and she is 15 months old. Rob keeps threatening to teach her to speak her first word. The first sounds they make are bbbbbb and ggggg - don't they sound good together!
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 15:10:10 2004

 I would if I could... My sister lives in Sardinia (Cagliari) and it's quite far from where I live now (1 and half hour with plane + 300 euro...), so I actually haven't got a chance to see him YET!! Still I am waiting for Xmas when we are going to meet in Florence for the holidays... On the other side I have already sent PLENTY of presents...
It's too early to start introducing him to Star Wars, ICAR, Role Playing Games, Computers, Women, Beer and so on, so I have to let Alice (my sister) believe that she is ACTUALLY educating him in a proper way before I kidnap my nephew at the age of 5 (it's a good age to start talking about all the stuff above).. HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR.. What is the name of your grand(son)daughter? I didn't know that Rob became an uncle... :)
Lox
- Wed Oct 20 14:59:56 2004

 And are you a doting uncle Lox, Rob is.
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 14:22:55 2004

 Ciao Tim! My sister opted for "Gabriele" (Gabriel)... He is 3 months old now...
Lox
- Wed Oct 20 14:20:31 2004

 Tom, having settled on naming your first born after the Document Object Model, what other names did you consider? Lox: What did your sister name her baby?
dsp
- Wed Oct 20 14:14:45 2004

 John: I agree... I can see him sniggering in his room as he lowers the uranium core into the new USS Enterprise that he's just finished.....
Lox
- Wed Oct 20 14:13:35 2004

 Good Lord, is that what they were - and I thought he was playing with Lego.
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 14:10:42 2004

 Yes, I can imagine young Rob as the "secretly building thermo-nuclear warheads in his bedroom" type.
John
- Wed Oct 20 14:05:14 2004

 Actually, Lox, he was very quiet. He was saving the noisiness for when he left home - thank god.
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 13:59:11 2004

 Mumsie: Ahahahahha, Rob must have been quite a very quiet and nice boy in his youth.. :) Tom: Almost 1 year old! Does he walk already?
Lox
- Wed Oct 20 13:52:44 2004

 He's 8.5 months.
tom
- Wed Oct 20 13:47:05 2004

 And then there's grandchildren awwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 13:44:59 2004

 The first thirty years are the worst!!
Mad Mumsie
- Wed Oct 20 13:44:04 2004

 I SEEEEE!!!! John told me about your kid but i didn't know the name! congratulations ("better late than never...").. How old is he? It must be quite a change of a lifestyle to have a baby... My sister had a baby recently (the first one) and after 3 months she is already stressed out... :)
Lox
- Wed Oct 20 13:34:24 2004

 Dom is my little boy. :->
tom
- Wed Oct 20 13:28:56 2004

 Ciao evetyone! Nasty day here in Italy ... :( Though if it rains this w/e I don't care as I am going to Japan and apparently there is a massive typhoon overthere! How nice! (by the way who is DOM?)
Lox
- Wed Oct 20 13:17:45 2004

 Niice.
tom
- Wed Oct 20 13:09:01 2004

 I think you need to start thinking about Dom's brand image. I'd like to suggest GBJ - Goldenboy Junior - as an alias.
John
- Wed Oct 20 11:37:26 2004

 Not yet. He will need coaching.
tom
- Wed Oct 20 11:28:05 2004

 Has he taken a shine to any of his mate's sisters yet...?
John
- Wed Oct 20 11:07:32 2004

 He's doing really, really well mate! He's now trying really hard to crawl, although hes on all fours and just sort of rocks at the moment. He has managed to crawl backwards a bit too! He's also trying to stand up all the time. No teeth yet, but lots of teething dribble and obviously painful times. :-(
tom
- Wed Oct 20 10:48:44 2004

 Tom: How is Dom doing?
dsp
- Wed Oct 20 10:46:14 2004

 *so* *there*. ;-)
tom
- Wed Oct 20 10:36:59 2004

 The reason *why* is that I have have a desktop and a laptop on my desk at work. I have two flatscreens and teh laptop screen. As we're monitoring systems using loads of different apps at once its really handy to have loads of viewing 'real estate'. Being able to connect them and use the same mouse and keyboard is just fab cos it's cleared my deskspace by a huge amount *and* I can sit up properly in my chair.
tom
- Wed Oct 20 10:36:40 2004

 He's still on the token ring stage, so can't communicate effectively with the rest of us yet.
tom
- Wed Oct 20 10:34:10 2004

 Does Dom have some sort of ethernet capability?
John
- Wed Oct 20 10:06:38 2004

 Hey Tom, how's the little 'un doing? (I don't mean laptop or other hardward related entity)
dsp
- Wed Oct 20 10:04:13 2004

 That is very clever... but the obvious question is... why?
John
- Wed Oct 20 10:02:05 2004

 Even better than that, I now have my laptop (with two screens attahced) and my windows desktop working together as one unit under one mouse and keyboard using some free software called Synergy. It even mirrors the clipboards.
tom
- Wed Oct 20 09:20:14 2004

 I have just got my work laptop working with two screens under Linux :-)
tom
- Wed Oct 20 08:09:05 2004

 Bored then?
tom
- Wed Oct 20 07:28:26 2004

 Been thinking about radically changing my site. Hmmmmm..... seems all a bit static and lonely at the moment.
Rob Lang
- Tue Oct 19 16:42:29 2004

 Blimey they've put a lot of work into that pets or food haven't they?
John
- Tue Oct 19 14:32:32 2004

 Do you suppose the 'Ready to Eat' hamsters come frozen or vacuum packed ?
Kev
- Tue Oct 19 14:26:45 2004

 Buy or eat: http://www.petsorfood.com/
Rob Lang
- Tue Oct 19 14:18:28 2004

 [Mrs Doyle] Some people LIKE the misery [/Mrs Doyle]
Rob Lang
- Tue Oct 19 14:05:29 2004

 What a miserable grey day...
John
- Tue Oct 19 13:46:15 2004

 I have been to a nice Swiss restaurant in London - in fact I think it is pretty much the only one - St. Moritz. It was very jolly in there. Had some really good rosti, if I recall correctly.
John
- Tue Oct 19 12:22:06 2004

 Just Swiss chocolate generally gets my vote.
Mad Mumsie
- Tue Oct 19 11:37:02 2004

 Toblerone ought to get a mention.
John
- Tue Oct 19 11:21:36 2004

 Lets not forget that the Swiss donated the Pope's guards.
dsp
- Tue Oct 19 10:00:29 2004

 I would love a visit and meet up, but may need to plan quite far ahead.
dsp
- Tue Oct 19 09:58:37 2004

 I certaninly would be interested but logistic issues prevent me from coming... :( Maybe next time I pop up in Reading?
Lox
- Tue Oct 19 09:49:07 2004

 Well I think we milked that one to death, didn't we? Anywho, does anyone feel like a night out in London some time soon? I am planning a pub crawl with some people from work, and it would be nice to do another non-work version as well... Anyone interested?
John
- Tue Oct 19 09:34:24 2004

 Apart from the Americas Cup in sailing and some international cheese contests they are pretty apathetic... AHA! I actually live quite close to swizerland and the general feeling towards them is pretty much like the british like the french...
Lox
- Mon Oct 18 16:45:51 2004

 The Swiss NEVER got involved in anything at all.
Mad Mumsie
- Mon Oct 18 16:42:11 2004

 No actually they are not included, but neither the swiss if I remember... :)
Lox
- Mon Oct 18 16:38:40 2004

 How could we forget the Italians!! Weren't they included in the "Axis and Allies" lineup.
Mad Mumsie
- Mon Oct 18 16:37:16 2004

 You are forgetting the Italian guest who would probably come together with the German guest, will start dissing the Yorkshire Pudding and generally anything being English or French, then it will start considering the roat beef and eventually will walk out of the room together with the American and British counterpart... HOW NICE!
Lox
- Mon Oct 18 16:22:05 2004

 Probably out of all the interest on deposits made, but never reclaimed.
Mad Mumsie
- Mon Oct 18 15:53:04 2004

 Of course, whilst the Swiss guest wouldn't be taking part much in the conversation during the evening, they would rather suspiciously offer to foot the German's share of the bill.... (oooh, controversial)
John
- Mon Oct 18 15:49:23 2004

 Probably late because the Japanese guest had let down their tyres.
Mad Mumsie
- Mon Oct 18 15:46:54 2004

 Yes, the French would only be there for a few minutes at the start....
John
- Mon Oct 18 15:45:53 2004

 Of course the American guest would have to turn up late, having ummed and arred about if the evening was really going to be their cup of tea or not...
John
- Mon Oct 18 15:45:09 2004

 And if there is a sideboard in the dining room, you could invite the Swiss, so they could sit on the fence, and not become involved.
Mad Mumsie
- Mon Oct 18 15:44:34 2004

 And of course, there is always the French!!
Mad Mumsie
- Mon Oct 18 15:43:35 2004

 If you were going to invite a German, then to make it complete you'd have to invite someone from Poland, who'd have to stand up all evening, having had their seat taken by the German right at the start of the proceedings.
John
- Mon Oct 18 15:42:42 2004

 No, the menu would have to be Brown Windsor Soup, followed by Roast Beef and Yorkshire Pudding, followed by steamed roly poly jam pudding and custard. Lovely.
Mad Mumsie
- Mon Oct 18 15:41:32 2004

 How about a Japanese representative? If you'd like, he or she could even be briefed to arrive very suddenly, dramatically, and without prior warning.
John
- Mon Oct 18 15:40:45 2004

 Mmmmmm Axis and Allies.... Mmmmm German dinners.... ROB WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU?! Have you turned nazi all of a sudden?
Lox
- Mon Oct 18 15:37:51 2004

 LOL! I have a German mate. We could get a yank along and have an Axis and Allies dinner.
Rob Lang
- Mon Oct 18 15:34:18 2004

 If you play your cards right, Rob might even invite you along one day.... Although, of course, you'd no doubt turn up late, having spent the first half of the evening in the Luftwaffe club down the road... Sorry, couldn't resist.
John
- Mon Oct 18 15:13:22 2004

 I see, I guess it is related to that "odd" job that he was doing when we were in radstock... GOOD JOB ROBBIE!!!
Lox
- Mon Oct 18 14:55:36 2004

 If Rob told you, he might have to kill you....
John
- Mon Oct 18 14:31:27 2004

 Woooo I really envy you guys... What club does Rob go to? Mad Kite Pilots? Some RAF related club?
Lox
- Mon Oct 18 14:28:08 2004

 Still, I doubt it will be quite as luxurious as Rob's club, which I haven't been to for a while.... hint... hint... Perhaps we can do a trade Rob? Dinner at your club, then pop over to my club for a few drinks afterwards?
John
- Mon Oct 18 14:04:19 2004

 No, no, it's definitely London (and Edinburgh). Apparently yes it is one of those places with posh armchairs and cigars... probably a fireplace too, which they're not allowed to light, it being central London. On joining they sent me one of their bottles - they have this strange policy of not telling you the distillery names directly, but instead giving them all a number. I've worked out from the description it's a Bruichladdich, which ought to be nice.
John
- Mon Oct 18 14:02:47 2004

 I assume it is in Pangbourne... Is it one of thoose clubs with posh armchairs, where you smoke your nice COHIBA N.8 and get plastered on your finest Scapa Whiskey?
By the way did you add other fine spirits to your collection?
Lox
- Mon Oct 18 13:54:21 2004

 I think the Edinburgh venues are a little grander - The Vaults in Leith, and Queens Street in the centre.
John
- Mon Oct 18 13:52:47 2004

 OK, so it's not quite Piccadilly... It's on Greville Street, so conveniently right in the middle of my favourite pub territory (Holborn, etc).
John
- Mon Oct 18 13:51:06 2004

 And where is one's club?
Mad Mumsie
- Mon Oct 18 12:51:54 2004

 I've just got my membership gubbins from the SMWS (whisky society), which means I can now use the member's rooms in London, Edinburgh and bizarrely Switzerland... So finally, like Rob, I can say "If you want me, I'll be at my club".
John
- Mon Oct 18 12:32:36 2004

 Ciao Jill! Unfortunately I had to re-schedule the whole weekend, so I had to skip on the rock cakes. I will give them a go during this week, as I am leaving for Japan next saturday and it would be rather hard for me to bake them there... I will keep you posted though!
Lox
- Mon Oct 18 09:39:15 2004

 Hi Lox, I'm fascinated to know whether or not you made the rock cakes this weekend, and if so, were they successful
Mad Mumsie
- Mon Oct 18 09:27:13 2004

 I am sorry John, I didn't want to hurt your sensibility, I never really learnt how to spell his name, but then again we all understood who I was talking about!! :) (nice one dsp!!)
Lox
- Mon Oct 18 08:54:52 2004

 Morning everyone. Monday again! Had a lovely weekend doing very little indeed. Super
Mad Mumsie
- Mon Oct 18 08:29:30 2004

 I am a photo researcher working on a college text entitled CRIMINOLOGY for Wadsworth Publishers. The author saw a photo on your site of someone dressed as Jason & Freddy. Can you send me a low res of any such photos and also would one be avalable for reproduction in the text if the author wants it? I woudl need low-res-jpegs first to revew to my e-mial, then
Billie Porter <blporter@alumni.tufts.edu>
Amesbury MA, - Sun Oct 17 22:36:45 2004

 Excellent, John! When dating a particularly dappy woman, she had her own points system:

Rob Lang
- Sat Oct 16 11:39:48 2004

 Have been out for a quick drive this morning. Chie is absolutely terrified! I am finding it secretly hilarious...
John
- Sat Oct 16 11:19:34 2004

 Oh no, I've dug my own grave, the wife's going to kill me.... etc.
John
- Fri Oct 15 17:15:48 2004

 John: So you're saying that your gay lover was called Mr Ahmad, not Hamad. It was an easy mistake for Lox to make, thanks for correcting him.
dsp
- Fri Oct 15 16:23:28 2004

 And before anyone else says it, we've been married for 33 years and you only get 25 for life!!
Mad Mumsie
- Fri Oct 15 16:17:49 2004

 Its also worth noting that certain crimes carry varying half-lives.
dsp
- Fri Oct 15 16:12:45 2004

 Whichever way you look at it, no man will EVER win!! - Female logic.
Mad Mumsie
- Fri Oct 15 16:05:04 2004

 Its a shame that the point scoring system doesn't work in reverse, example:
  • late for picking up = -1
  • toilet seat up = -1
  • slept with her sister = -1
  • diner +1
  • breakfast in bed +1
  • washed up +1
    Balance = zero
    dsp
    - Fri Oct 15 16:03:45 2004

     Jimmy: I was obviously brought up in another time. Gifts were received with the proper amount of reverence, and NEVER taken for granted.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 15 16:00:50 2004

     And other 10 (suture) points are added by doctor after the jeweller comes around the house after the credit card swipe has gone horribly worng...
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 15:47:23 2004

     C'mon Mumsie, you must admit I speak the truth.
    Jimmy
    - Fri Oct 15 15:45:50 2004

     Jimmy, you have to realise its not the present but the amount of thought that has gone in to getting it. Of course, if its small, shiny and mounted in platinum, what girl wouldn't give 10, or even more, points.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 15 15:11:19 2004

     We didn't know any Mr Hamad either. I think you may be referring to Mr. AHMAD. Come on guys, if you're going to cuss me, at least sort your spelling out first.
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 15:09:16 2004

     John: That was intentional I think (which brings us to the story with Mr. hamad)! har har har har har har
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 15:04:32 2004

     What she hasn't got is the stereo of course.... :P
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 15:03:18 2004

     I don't know anyone called Gill. Isn't that a bloke's name - as in Gill the really awful salesman in The Simpsons?
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 15:03:13 2004

     Jimmy: I agree, but what happens when they go like "Oh XXXXXX (put name here) I like your SONY stereo, I REALLY wish I had one, really... Oh well I better go back to my room, you know I try not to be there too much because I hear all the music sounds coming from other rooms, and you know I haven't got one so..."
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 15:02:19 2004

     He also forgot to add the plastic ring he gave Mr.Hamad when he was going through his gay period...
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 14:56:38 2004

     Foolish lot. Presents for women inevitably go unappreciated- and to know why, you have to understand their point-scoring system. Everything scores 1 point. 1 rose=1 point. 12 roses=1 point. CD player=1 point. Clean the bathroom=1 point. Don't think for one minute that you can buy them a super-swanky birthday present and be awarded 10 points. No, she's wanting a present (1 point) AND a card (1 point)- so you MUST provide the card too, regardless of how great the present is. They really are a funny lot!
    Jimmy
    - Fri Oct 15 14:54:19 2004

     dsp: glad you used to a G there and not a J. I wouldn't want any confusion to arise.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 15 14:37:15 2004

     John, you missed one...
  • Herpes which you gave Gill, aged 20.
    dsp
    - Fri Oct 15 14:28:33 2004

     Do you have any of the maling addresses for the women in question? You should send them all invoices!
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 14:24:54 2004

     John's message made me think of the "presents" that I have given to ladies around the world... Skipping the "parental guidance" ones I remember giving away:
    What a nice guy!!
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 14:14:49 2004

     Wow how can you remember all the things that you have given away?! I have a feeling that my list would be huge...I really wouldn't know where to start.. Still I agree I would like them back too! What's with this thing that you have to give presents to women in order to entertain a social relationship?!
    I PROTEST!
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 14:07:23 2004

     My goodness John, what an impulsive creature you are!
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 15 14:06:04 2004

     In fact, I could compile quite a substantial list of nik-naks and curios which I have given away to women based on some whimsical sentimental/romantic notion, and given that we've since then utterly lost touch, have probably just been thrown away by the person in question, and as such it would have been quite nice if instead I could have had them back. Some examples:
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 14:00:42 2004

     Expensive, what? And was it worth it.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 15 14:00:29 2004

     Jimmy: Wooooooo that's quite a request! In our field we have people asking for deliveries in 1 month for goods that take 3 months to be made, but cutting from 30min to 10sec and expect the same quality wins the contest hands down!
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 13:59:56 2004

     I think she is living in Germany now, doing some stuff at Frankfurt's airport... As for the RATM t-shirt that was the price for a snog my friend! :)
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 13:57:48 2004

     Hey people- how's this for an outrageously unreasonable user expectation: To reduce the simulation-time from 30 minutes to 10 seconds, with no loss of accuracy.
    Jimmy
    - Fri Oct 15 13:55:10 2004

     Chiara still has my Rage Against The Machine t-shirt. I would quite have liked to get that back, as I assume whatever novelty there was in it for her wore off years ago.
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 13:44:52 2004

     Ah, Chiara, I remember that competition.
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 15 13:36:43 2004

     I think this was some bizarre fetish on Tim's part - if I recall correctly he was getting Chiara to say that in her pleasingly foreign sounding accent.
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 13:30:36 2004

     Indeed that was the only time that I have heard the world-famous line put in a context where it had a normal meaning... As for "bread of stone" I have to admit that it was infact a bit too crunchy BUT it wasn't all that bad!!John: Do you remember the "So Mr.Bond you've found my missiles!" line? That was another "fil rouge" back in radstock!
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 12:39:05 2004

     During my last trip to Italy, you can imagine my sheer delight at leaning out of the window of Lorenzo's mother's house, and observing that there were indeed many flowers in the garden. I naturally issued forth the immortal line, and suddenly felt somehow at peace with the world. I imagine something similar happens to Eddie Izzard, when he looks upon a monkey which is, in fact, in a tree.
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 11:59:25 2004

     What jolly japes you all played at University. Such a splendid use of resources.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 15 11:53:51 2004

     It is a little known fact, that our use of "ci sono molti fiori nel giardino" actually originates from a bloke in St. George's Hall called Damien, who I don't think any of you met. If I recall correctly, he lived next door to Rich, who lived across the corridor from me. This is the same Rich who Tim once burst in on, all American gangland style, shouting "Arms up against the wall mother f***er!", only to then find out his Mum and his sister were in the room with him. Marvellous.
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 11:52:19 2004

     I said "ci sono molti fiori nel giardino" just a week ago to one of Kate's friends. He looked shocked. I grinned knowingly. He'd asked when/where/how I'd learnt that uttely useless phrase and I told him of "crappa spastic pasta", "bread like stone" and how everything in Italy was better!!!!!
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 15 11:44:34 2004

     Sono davaro spiacente!
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 11:06:55 2004

     Well he's a grown up now! Now he has to think about the car, the insurance, the prices of fuel rising, that investment that it's not doing so well, the mortgage, Iraq, Japan... There's little space left for Italian there!!! Though I guess that his memory allocation has some reserved space for the old time favourite "ci sono molti fiori nel giardino"...
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 10:55:11 2004

     Memory going eh John
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 15 10:44:45 2004

     Going to the Swan for lunch? I am going to have PIZZA!! I am already dribbling at the thought of it... :)
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 10:44:13 2004

     Maybe it was E VAI then.... Can't remember now!
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 10:42:31 2004

     Mmmmmm do you remember the starting letter at all? I mean it could be "E VAI!!" or "SPAZIALE" or many more...
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 10:40:58 2004

     Lorenzo, I am trying to remember some of the new Italian I learnt - what was the "new version" of GRANDE...?
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 10:16:13 2004

     What a delightful metaphor Lorenzo!
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 10:14:49 2004

     John your lively interest for weekends is comparable to the same enthusiasm that radiates from a brick..... :)
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 09:27:33 2004

     YWEOW!! Yuppieeee, tomorrow I am planning an heavy sleeping session till 12 AT LEAST...
    Lox
    - Fri Oct 15 09:25:12 2004

     All day apparently!
    John
    - Fri Oct 15 09:21:01 2004

     Whoopee its Friday again.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 15 09:06:39 2004

     Finally I can see it... Nice! good work dsp, though my total ignorance of programming doesn't allow me to understand how refined is the code behind it...
    Lox
    - Thu Oct 14 14:02:17 2004

     Oooh that history thing is nice Tim - good work!
    John
    - Thu Oct 14 13:46:36 2004

     Lox: It works on my machine (developer's mantra)
    Rob: I've put one on, anywhere else?
    dsp
    - Thu Oct 14 11:24:35 2004

     Ufffffff the link doesn't work for me... or am I doing something wrong here... ?
    Lox
    - Thu Oct 14 11:14:42 2004

     Ignore that, you're ahead of me.
    Rob Lang
    - Thu Oct 14 11:00:45 2004

     Nice Tim! Mini link on the front page too?
    Rob Lang
    - Thu Oct 14 11:00:30 2004

     Its a great for an instant hit of nostalgia.
    dsp
    - Thu Oct 14 10:52:16 2004

     Here's a script to get at historic message boards.
    dsp
    - Thu Oct 14 10:49:55 2004

     Not unless they dug him up - I was there in 1991
    Mad Mumsie
    - Thu Oct 14 10:24:17 2004

     The King drives the No. 17 to the Three Tuns.
    Rob Lang
    - Thu Oct 14 10:13:19 2004

     Mad Mumsie: Did you see The King?
    dsp
    - Thu Oct 14 09:28:47 2004

     The designs of the hotels are fascinating and you can walk around at midnight without a coat, but gambling, no, I didn't bother.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Thu Oct 14 08:41:35 2004

     G'morning everyone!

    Jimmy, I guess that loosing a lot of money in the casinos, prostitution and drugs are a big attraction for many individuals... I would probably go to the Grand Canyon i/o Vegas (given the choice of course)!! I have a friend living in Vegas he said that it's a place that exists just for the gambling... Oh well?
    Lox
    - Thu Oct 14 08:14:33 2004

     Yeah, but the whole of Vegas is kinda YUK! isn't it? A strange place- I can never understand the attraction, myself.
    Jimmy
    - Thu Oct 14 08:10:13 2004

     It's no good Lox, he's really upset me now, so it's no good trying to soften the blow. Besides, I've seen the pyramids in Vegas - how do you spell errrrrrrrrrrrrch
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 16:32:02 2004

     Plus if he made the pyramids in Egypt he would be buried in some secret room by now... I think that the pharaons used to kill the workers and architets because they knew the passages and traps...
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 16:30:34 2004

     Ouch! Maybe John was referring to the Pyramids in Vegas!
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 16:29:25 2004

     A little before his time I feel, because although he is my generation, we are not THAT old, believe me.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 16:24:30 2004

     The pyramids at Giza....?
    John
    - Wed Oct 13 16:12:41 2004

     Don't know about that, but he was usually involved in anything large.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 16:02:23 2004

     Yes, he did. He designed massive things. Was it Lakeside he did too?
    Rob Lang
    - Wed Oct 13 15:38:45 2004

     Rob: Still for an architet he must have been famous, 3 Ferraris it a lot even for a football player....
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 15:31:43 2004

     That would have been "BR" to separate lines... :P
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 15:29:49 2004

     WooooooJohn: actually I am trying something FAR MORE ADVANCED (i.e. "").... :P
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 15:29:14 2004

     Had something to do with that shopping centre on the outskirts of Newcastle - the one with a theme park inside it.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 14:59:02 2004

     John blink works in Firefox.
    dsp
    - Wed Oct 13 14:49:12 2004

     He was an Architect, I seem to remember.
    Rob Lang
    - Wed Oct 13 14:43:14 2004

     Oh it looks like blink no longer works in HTML.... Thank heavens for that!
    John
    - Wed Oct 13 14:40:44 2004

     Absolutely no blink OK Lorenzo? That is utterly banned outright, even for purposes of laying down the law.... ah, DOH!
    John
    - Wed Oct 13 14:40:02 2004

     Sorry I have to try some html tags

    ciao ciao
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 14:32:23 2004

     WOW 3 ferraris... that's far more than what most italians would wish for... I guess this guy it's preatty "loaded"
    is he a stock broker or something?
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 14:31:47 2004

     Yep that would be Ferrari, nice little car, drinks an hell of a lot of fuel, but it's a great car nonetheless... John: as for the Fre-iat unfortunately they do own Ferrari.. :( dsp: Actually we have an MG scooter as well, I guess that's enough to qualify Italy as a respectable country (please stop laughing now!!!)... :P
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 14:29:28 2004

     Yeah, Simon Moir's dad had three. Smashing, they were too.
    Rob Lang
    - Wed Oct 13 14:21:59 2004

     Lox: I understand Bentley do special edition scooter for the elite of Italy.
    dsp
    - Wed Oct 13 14:07:01 2004

     Well done Rob. Didn't you used to know someone who had three.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 14:03:38 2004

     Ferrari?
    Rob Lang
    - Wed Oct 13 14:00:20 2004

     No, I think its a bit more sporty than that. I know I would never get in or out of it, being very low.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 13:58:28 2004

     Is that Fer-iat you're thinking of, you know, the Punto etc.
    John
    - Wed Oct 13 13:54:49 2004

     Lox, Don't the Italians make a little car that begins with Fer (can't think what the rest is, but don't they keep winning things)
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 13:15:16 2004

     I thought that a nice Japanese car would have been good for you! By the way we don't get Bentleys here does it mean that we are a bunch of uncultured beasts?
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 12:51:29 2004

     Well done John!
    Jimmy
    - Wed Oct 13 12:44:48 2004

     Well of course. How any self-respecting town can get by without a Bentley dealership, I just don't know.
    John
    - Wed Oct 13 11:59:22 2004

     So, Rob, until then you're Mummy's little boy!
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 11:54:06 2004

     [paraphrase] "I thing I like about Pangbourne is that it has a Bentley dealership - which is Nice. Reading doesn't have one." [/paraphrase]
    Rob Lang
    - Wed Oct 13 11:51:40 2004

     X5? Don't be daft, I'll be sticking to something modest to start off with. In fact at lunchtime I'm going to pop round to the new Bentley dealership just around the corner.
    John
    - Wed Oct 13 11:41:56 2004

     Mum, I'm scheduled for 2086.
    Rob Lang
    - Wed Oct 13 11:32:25 2004

     Hmmmmmmmmm. Just a set of wheels, can't he afford the whole car. Ohmegod, just had an horrible thought - another maniac on the road.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 11:23:45 2004

     Not another one growing up. Rob, when's it your turn?
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 11:21:50 2004

     John: Will you be buying a set of wheels? I can see you in an X5!
    dsp
    - Wed Oct 13 11:10:55 2004

     Well he is LICENSED now.... It's a bit of an official "grown up" licence isn't it?... Mind you, they did give one to me, so maybe it's not all that bad... :) Ciao ciao
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 10:59:17 2004

    WELL DONE, JOHN!

    Does this mean you're grown up now?
    Rob Lang
    - Wed Oct 13 10:39:54 2004

     Yes I did begin to wonder when he kept asking me to pull over on the left in a safe, convenient and legal position... over by that off license - oh, and keep the engine running sunshine, I'll only be a minute.
    John
    - Wed Oct 13 10:22:43 2004

     No Lox, the Examiner was drunk.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 09:30:55 2004

     Uhuh?! How did you manage to pass the test then? Paid the inspector? :P
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 09:27:33 2004

     In reference to any possible confusion caused by dsp's earlier post, I'd like to make it absolutely clear that I wasn't drunk whilst taking my test.
    John
    - Wed Oct 13 09:22:53 2004

     Lox: Still deliberating.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 08:41:26 2004

     WELL DONE JOHN. I might add that I am the only one in the Lang household to pass their test first time, and me a woman! Regarding old age care, fortunately this is not Japan and I can sponge off both of them equally.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Wed Oct 13 08:40:54 2004

     GRAAAAAANDEEEE John!!! Congrats on your test, did you drive a veggie car or the normal "horse powered" ones. You know it might be inconvenient for your green soul to drive something that actually have animals in its engine... :) But I am sure that after the veggie shoes you can probably find an aubergine-powered car....Jill: Are thoose tales THAT BAD?! I can feel the general curiosity level rising fast here! :)
    Lox
    - Wed Oct 13 07:55:28 2004

     John, mega congrats on your driving test, well done! And double bonus for being drunk! Salad chips?
    dsp
    - Tue Oct 12 22:49:32 2004

     Jill - in Japan at least, the custom is that the oldest child looks after the parents. As such I recommend that you say nothing bad about Alex, but incriminate Rob to your heart's content.
    John
    - Tue Oct 12 20:45:30 2004

     Ciao bella everyone! I'd like to point out that I have been away from my computer for almost all of today, in part due to the fact that I had my driving test this morning which I passed FIRST TIME because I am a HAWKINS, and everyone in my family passes first time. I am also fantastically drunk, having spent the afternoon in London to celebrate, which may excuse/explain any bad punctuation/grammar/spelling/arrogance in this post. A blanket apology, if you will.
    John
    - Tue Oct 12 20:43:32 2004

     I have to make a very careful decision here - do I upset Rob, who is going to look after me in my old age, or do I spill the beans?
    Mad Mumsie
    - Tue Oct 12 16:50:44 2004

     Almost forgot... Please DO fill us in with some stories (if it's not too much of a problem of course), I am sure they will lighten my workday quite a lot! :P
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 16:40:36 2004

     Ehehehehehe, "Theatrical efforts" that's THE ROB that I remember!! :)
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 16:39:05 2004

     Lox: where do you think he honed all those fine vocal skills! I could tell some stories of theatrical prowess........................
    Mad Mumsie
    - Tue Oct 12 16:19:54 2004

     AHA, I see that Rob has been exporting his music skills to his parent's home! Mind you in 5 years I would expect great improvements from the "soft tunes" heard in Radstock... :)
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 16:10:48 2004

     Shouldn't think you'd get beyond the first bar Rob, before THEY hung up.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Tue Oct 12 15:46:23 2004

     Rob: Do you actually SING bach? Can I get an mp3? :)
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 15:26:57 2004

     Next time someone tries to sell me something, I'm going to sing down the phone to them. A nice bit of Carter, NWA or Rage Against the Machine. Or Bach.
    Rob Lang
    - Tue Oct 12 15:25:23 2004

     Ciao again guys and gals. Thanks a lot for the receipe Mad Mumsie and Nigel, I will try it out this weekend, let's hope that I can do a good job with it :)
    Dsp: UNFORTUNATELY Homer it's dubbed, but they did a good job at it, so it's not that bad... As for growing up I am afraid I have caught the same virus, I can't go out in the morning without watching TV news, and I must check what are the stock markets doing... GOSH!
    Fortunately I go back home and I still have fun playing computer or with my 5year old neighbour's kid...
    Yep the quote is right, though I wouldn't feel all that bad after all you DID wait more than 30minutes on the phone... :P
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 15:25:11 2004

     I had a script and little training. But the company I worked for was disreputable to the extreme. I'm sure that at larger companies, the salespersons are well-trained and spend a lot of time learning snappy comebacks. I generally would listen to the first pitch and then say,"No thanks," or I would just hang up w/out saying anything. And the pause is due to the autodialer (a comptuer) switching over to the telemarketer's headset.
    Travis
    - Tue Oct 12 14:16:46 2004

     I've now stored the recipe for connies rock cakes in the tutorial section of my page: http://www.maison-de-stuff.net/rob/tutorials/conniesrockcakes.html
    Rob Lang
    - Tue Oct 12 13:21:32 2004

     dsp; I bet you've stopped ringing doorbells and running away too.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Tue Oct 12 12:57:14 2004

     I think you're right about there about growing up Mad Mumsie. I actually prefer the news to cartoons now (which I consider to be noisy). Apart from the Simpsons of course, but then that's a lot more than a cartoon.
    Lox: Do you get the Simpons dubbed in Italian, what does Homer sound like?
    dsp
    - Tue Oct 12 12:55:34 2004

     I always find the best way to deal with these people is to say (very politely, so they don't suspect) "Can I just stop you there a moment" and when they stop, you put the phone down.
    Jimmy
    - Tue Oct 12 12:43:41 2004

     Mmmmmmm... Rock cakes.......
    dsp
    - Tue Oct 12 12:34:57 2004

     Nigel - I don't remember many getting to the wire cooling tray!
    Mad Mumsie
    - Tue Oct 12 12:29:16 2004

     Rock Cakes - final part - 5. Beat the egg lightly with the milk add to the mixture and stir (or mix) thoroughly together. 6. Place dessertspoons of mixture in rough heaps, a little apart on the baking sheet. 7. Cook for 20 - 25 minutes on second shelf (reduce for fan assisted oven) 8. Cool on wire rack.
    Nigel
    - Tue Oct 12 12:20:42 2004

     Sorry - make that three parts - Rock Cakes Method Prepare a baking sheet with Margarine Set oven to Gas mark 6, (400 F) 1. Seive flour and salt into a bowl. 2. Cut margarine into half inch squares and rub in. 3. Stir in sugar with a metal spoon. 4. Stir in fruit and lemon. ALL ABOVE CAN BE DONE WITH A MIXER
    Nigel
    - Tue Oct 12 12:19:46 2004

     Recipe for Rock Cakes as requested - enjoy. In two parts... CONNIE’S ROCK CAKES 10 - 12 Cakes 8 oz Self Raising Flour (8 heaped tablespoons) Pinch of Salt 3 ozs Stork (or any) Margarine 3 ozs Sugar (3 rounded tablespoons) 3 - 4 ozs currants, or sultanas or mixed fruit and peel Finely grated rind of 1 lemon (or ¼ teaspoon lemon flavouring or juice) 1 egg 3 dessertspoons of milk (or dairy alternative)
    Nigel
    - Tue Oct 12 12:17:26 2004

     Oh dear dsp, if you feel terrible about it now, you must be GROWING UP!
    Mad Mumsie
    - Tue Oct 12 11:55:28 2004

     God yeah. Although I feel terrible about it now.
    dsp
    - Tue Oct 12 11:49:55 2004

     I remember that! Wasn't it you, dsp?
    Rob Lang
    - Tue Oct 12 11:47:07 2004

     Lox: Yeah it was the TV company, I think the quote was: The phone f**ko, pick it up!
    dsp
    - Tue Oct 12 10:08:03 2004

     Lox: My brother has the recipe - I'll get him to add it here.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Tue Oct 12 09:47:40 2004

     Grrrrr forgot to put the html there... sorry it looks all bad... :(
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 09:36:08 2004

     Mad Mumsie: EHeheheheheh... to be honest when I look in the mirror sometimes I don't know what to believe myself!!! :) Rob: What happened to that receipe for the "Rock Cakes"? Tim/John: Rob speaking of jokes over the phone made me remember of someone screaming down the phone something along the lines of "PICK UP THE F*****G PHONE" just when the operator picked up the line... Was it for that company that was renting us all the appliances?
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 09:35:31 2004

     Hi Lox, I have, of course, heard ALL about you from Rob! But I didn't believe any of it.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Tue Oct 12 09:21:29 2004

     dsp (way below): I started looking at C# because it was like Java. Then the company (Moody's KMV) decided to move over to .NET. The joy of .NET is that there are some of us coding C# and some doing VB and it all clicks together without any fudging at all. The VB people get to learn some C# in the process and we all get to see some VB in action.

    I'm polite to telemarketers. It's a bum job so I try and make their telephone experience with me as nice as possible. This doesn't mean I don't like to play jokes. I often pretend that I'm from the West Country and warp my accent to be unintelligible. I also like to pretend that I live in a 'Bedsit' with one window that has bars over it. I have also, in the past, pretended it was my 83rd Birthday and how nice it was of them to call. Regardless of the joke, I'm always polite.
    Rob Lang
    - Tue Oct 12 09:20:24 2004

     In my experience, there's a short delay between you picking up, *pause* then hello. The calls are made independantly of the person (by computer) and when you answer it is routed to an operator, hence the pause. This time (if alert) can be used to drop the call.
    dsp
    - Tue Oct 12 09:18:16 2004

     My sis used to work in the call centre for GE Capital and said it was a horrible place to work because the majority of staff are doing it for short term work. They were trained, and the computer has options for all the responses you could imagine. The people are merely acting as a human/computer interface. As a pleasant end-note, she would always let people off the silly and unreasonable charges.
    dsp
    - Tue Oct 12 09:14:22 2004

     John: they could also be re-employed in the evergreen industry of YIKES. You need some work force to churn all that yikes anyways...
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 09:10:20 2004

     I think I ought to give a go to Rob's mum (by the way "nice to meet you" electronically speaking) advice... The problem is that once you pick up the phone you feel kind of obliged to answer... I'll try to be strong! Unfortunately going ex-directory doesn't seem to work here. A friend of mine tried and it didn't do him any good at all, actually it seems that "for some strange reasons" his details fell in the hands of our great "almost state owned" (crappy) TV network and he is now getting calls from them as well trying to promote Digital TV!!! (Though I think that a small british company called SOFTEL -tm- might have something to do with this technology).
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 09:08:43 2004

     I agree Travis, it can't be a very nice job, and I do pity the poor people at the other end of the line but this sense of guilt or sympathy or whatever it is does not overcome the general irritation I feel about the whole thing - it wastes my time, and makes me reluctant to answer the phone at all to the extent that I probably miss calls I actually would like to receive on occasion.
    History is littered with these kinds of jobs, where eventually the public decided it was a service they no longer required, perhaps a new law was passed, and as such all the members of that trade were made redundant. Take executioners for example... did they become destitute? No, they adapted and found other work - they probably became lumberjacks and pedicurists. When you go down the Job Centre (or whatever it's called now) to get your dole money you don't see a line of depressed men wearing hoods and dragging a disused axe along the floor do you?
    I personally would have no remorse if the industry just ceased to be. All of these people could be re-employed in vocations society actually wants and needs - nurses, plumbers, dentists, bar staff. All of these jobs probably entail using the telephone to some degree, so they'd already have their foot in the door.
    John
    - Tue Oct 12 08:55:02 2004

     Two wheezies we used to use on tele sales: (1) leave the phone on the table and carry on with what you are doing. Then hang up a few minutes later. (2) Just hang up without speaking. I did this once and they called back saying they were cut off - I told them they weren't, I had hung up. Mind you, since we went ex-directory we don't get them anymore.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Tue Oct 12 08:47:06 2004

     Drizzle, 10 degrees, damp weather... I could be in England today!!! :) In my next life I will major in meteoropathy and write a marvellous dissertation on the effect of bad weather on my will to do work! Well the fact that I am not happy in this place and company doens't have anything to do with it of course!
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 08:17:25 2004

     Travis: do they give special training to telemarketers? I am curious, they always seem to be very quick to respond to any attempt of closing the conversation, I guess if you do it for a long time then you problably have a lot of experience but still..
    Lox
    - Tue Oct 12 08:13:23 2004

     I'll jump in without reading the necessary background posts because I'm a bastard. Any of you ever worked as a telemarketer? I did it for less than 2 weeks...the worst job I ever had. I pretended to phone people because I couldn't stand the rejection...*sniff* I now receive almost no telemarketing calls.
    Travis
    - Tue Oct 12 03:03:46 2004

     Hmm. Still can't decide. Java was always a problem, because the best implementation by miles was the MS one. Damn. Now .Net is really easy-to-use, and rather well designed too. Still can't bring myself to feel the .Net love, though.
    Jimmy
    - Mon Oct 11 18:05:54 2004

     I wish we had that Telephone thingy here in Pizzaland, we get at least 10 calls every night for crappy and overexpensive ADSL offers... We started insulting them but they are very very very stubborn. All of a sudden it seems that here you MUST have an ADSL, even if you don't use it all that much... Oh well..
    Lox
    - Mon Oct 11 17:47:58 2004

     well if your really keen you sign up for the Fax Prefernece Service http://www.mpsonline.org.uk/fps/ , and even the Baby Mailing preference service(????) http://www.mpsonline.org.uk/bmpsr/
    Kev
    - Mon Oct 11 17:19:14 2004

     Clare and me did this about a year ago and it made a massive difference. They had an uncanny knack of phone just as we sat down to tea. Calls are now practically zero, apart from Sky trying to sell us their satelite dish insurance.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 17:18:49 2004

     Thanks for that Kev! Right I'm TPSed and MPSed up now. I'm really looking forward to making those official complaints in a month's time!
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 17:08:45 2004

     Yes I did, about 3-4 weeks ago sot still waiting for it to kick in. also try http://www.mpsonline.org.uk/mpsr/
    Kev
    - Mon Oct 11 17:02:29 2004

     On a completely unrelated note, has anyone else registered with the Telephone Preference Service? I did today finally, as I've got really fed up with all those junk calls. http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 16:53:36 2004

     I'm glad to hear all this. Totally agree with you Rob, Reflection is great! From a VB background, its fantastic to ger reaquainted with all the old favourites: threading, inheritance, constructors, static members, exceptions and the like. I'm using VB.Net and prefer it to C# because of its easier reading, but I guess that depends on what your background is.
    Did you start using C# at Mean and Moody or was it your own initiative?
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 16:48:15 2004

     John, I would still love to see you port your 'clever' stuff to MC++ just to see how the CLR coped.
    Kev
    - Mon Oct 11 16:44:14 2004

     I'd love to think that Java was the solution to everything, I really would.
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 16:41:57 2004

     Absolutely - given the right conditions I think .Net is fantastic. I imagine it will be of great benefit to most developers in most companies. Unfortunately, it doesn't suit my (very particular) requirements.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 16:41:13 2004

     Actually John, the future is Java :) please keep up :)
    Kev
    - Mon Oct 11 16:40:00 2004

     Wow, fair play. The CLR is expanding leaps and bounds - I don't think it will solve everything, though.
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 16:38:37 2004

     Rob: the problem for us isn't the language, but the CLR. It is very Windows centric, and although ports of the CLR to other platforms do exist (mono etc), we've found them to be not reliable or complete enough for our needs, partly because they're open source I suppose. Besides, even if those ports did suddenly come on in leaps and bounds, we'd probably then have requirements to move to an embedded OS or something. It is very valuable for us to keep our IP as far away from any specific implementation environment as possible, as we do have to keep very flexible about what platform we end up shipping.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 16:14:38 2004

     Jimmy, don't miss it at all. I don't miss bloody pointers or the bloody Microsoft Foundation Classes. The .NET framework is very very very much like java - perhaps better but my loyalties lie split on that. Things like reflection make plugin architecture so much easier. Also, XML support and the like are dealt with tear-inducing beauty. The networking gizmos are splendid too. No more bloody COM either. The cut down version of .NET is well structured too with no gumph you might need for a full Windows platform. When Longhorn finally arrives, .NET will be the norm and everything else will be seen as quirky or odd.
    John, you can programming in 'managed c++', which is c++ but using the .NET common libraries.
    Come to think of it, I've not done any ASP.NET or device driving writing but that's about it. I bet it's bloody easy in .NET.
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 16:04:29 2004

     What was, at the time, called stubbornness on my part, but now, retrospectively, I shall call foresight, has actually resulted in us saving potentially hundreds of hours of wasted effort.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 15:59:31 2004

     I was endlessly derided at my company for my complete reluctance to get involved in .Net... up until the point that we realised we'd probably have to stop making Windows based systems or lose out on a massive sector of the market, at which point my lovingly crafted cross platform C++ was suddenly very much appreciated again. In our bit of the industry at least, it is looking like .Net doesn't really have much of a future.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 15:56:38 2004

     Do you miss the multiple inheritance of c++, or are you glad to see the back of the bloody stuff?
    Jimmy
    - Mon Oct 11 15:43:53 2004

     I do. C#. And I do just about all of it. Server side, forms, reflection, the lot.
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 15:40:38 2004

     As a complete aside, is anyone doing any .Net development?
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 15:37:54 2004

     It is ironic that there should be so many ill-tempered people in a film called "Goodfellas".
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 15:35:19 2004

     John: Its the bit from Goodfellas where Billy Batts has really wound up Tommy (Joe Pesci) aka "Spit Shine Tommy" and everyone has managed to calm him down, its all peaceful, quiet, and he comes out with: "Now go home and get your fucking shine box", and it all kicks off. Later, Tommy savagely murders him, which is his undoing 'cos he's a made man.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 15:28:17 2004

     Lorenzo: dasai, and as with many Japanese words omit the i sound at the end if you want to give it more impact.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 15:26:11 2004

     John what was that Japanese word that you were using to describe a very ugly, unfashionable thing?
    Lox
    - Mon Oct 11 15:21:09 2004

     By the way Tim, what is a shine box, in the context of a good dissing...?
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 14:28:45 2004

     Tim, I'm surprised you've even heard of Google, given your general unawareness of things, like, for example, towns in the Midlands beginning with the letter "B" and rhyming with "Cradley". (OK it was tenuous, but I got there in the end).
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 14:12:47 2004

     No, not infallability at all. In fact, it's an admission that I could be entirely wrong. All I'm saying is that an opinion is an opinion, and I'm entitled hold that view whether it is right or wrong.
    Jimmy
    - Mon Oct 11 13:54:53 2004

     As an aside, "My opinions are merely opinions (not statements of fact) and as such are not in need of corrections." suggests infallibility.
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 13:27:48 2004

     I am biased. I am having a shitty time. I am trying to work out where to go from here.
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 13:26:21 2004

     Rob- John is right ... I wasn't attacking *your* personal work on NNs, but NNs generally. So: you've done a PhD on 'em. Well, *that's* not going to bias your opinion, is it? And you're having trouble with corrections? My opinions are merely opinions (not statements of fact) and as such are not in need of corrections. I happen to think that NNs are crap after several fruitless experiences with the buggers. You are in no position to tell me the value of my own experience- so stop ranting at me, just because I don't like your favourite toys!
    Jimmy
    - Mon Oct 11 12:31:53 2004

     Guarenteed you spend the next hour trying to think up something really clever, more likely, searching google for something because you're so unoriginal. PS. Your mama is so fat she has to iron her pants on the driveway.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 12:29:03 2004

     Oh and by the way, Nala is a dirty little slapper.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 12:26:05 2004

     I'm going for lunch now - this is not to be interpreted as me being too offended to post anything for the next hour.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 12:25:09 2004

     Whatever! Minger! Talk to the elbow because you're not worth the [arm] extension.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 12:24:22 2004

     Tim: all northerners are shit, including you, and your shitty town.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 12:21:16 2004

     John: Go get your shine box you cock eyed fuck!
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 12:18:56 2004

     Well I was just trying to make the peace... I suspect Jimmy has no idea you've done a PhD in neural networks, that you're currently having a shitty time of doing corrections, or that this is in general such an emotive subject area for you... I think you're imagining the "personal attack" element here - I doubt this was the way it was intended to come across.... and after all who can honestly say they've never deliberately said something outrageous just to spark controversy...?
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 12:12:54 2004

     Off to the gym. I hope I can work off some of this pent up anger and come back with a clearer and less reactional mindset. >:-|
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 12:05:01 2004

     I signed a load of stuff to keep my mouth shut. I can show how they could be used for radar deinterleaving (thus, my real world app) but I can't say if they are.
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 12:04:07 2004

     The 'not allowed to say either way' creates an interesting subtext.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 12:02:25 2004

     dsp, thanks, but your comments were not offensive they were opinion. Opinion can be overhauled by education (me telling where else they're used) and by discussion. They are a long chalk from the kind of insults shown below.
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 12:01:32 2004

     Rob: (tip toe-ing), sorry if my crass generalization has poked any sensitivities, I hadn't intended (or even tried to) incite a rant.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 11:59:13 2004

     The fun run starts at the Hilton (beyond the epitaph) and goes to just passed the Pleasure Beach and then back again. If it was run as one long streach, it would go well passed the Daleks and Lego men, but it doubles back on itself. Normally, I do more panting and wheezing than oooing and arrring, but I'll try that next year.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 11:54:49 2004

     To quote: "They're crap because they're stupid. You might call them an "Artificial Stupidity Technology". Their learning power has always been dismal, and it's invariably possible to get better results with other (usually simpler) techniques. You'd only ever use them as a toy ... an "Academic Curio" if you like. Any real-world applications are either: (a) decades away or (b) outperformed by existing stuff. Admittedly (a) isn't a very good point - that's exactly what academia is for (IMHO), but in the meantime they're still crap."

    John, you were saying? This is no way to discuss something, it's not constructive. It's not "Come on, Rob, NN are a bit shit, aren't they? 10000 epochs is ridiculous for serious app...". It's just offensive and completely wrong. I spend enough of my fucking time going through corrections, I shouldn't have to spend my time on here defending my work. And now you're pointing at me being the villain for not taking this in the right context? It's not the statement that bothers me, it's the approach. I thought this was a place for people to discuss things in a nice way, rather than the ridiculous flaming you get with forums packed with 12 year olds. This is offensive NOT because of the statement itself (that's just ignorant) but because of the direct attack nature of it. This was not performed in a mock-12-year old shouting of 'Your mum' as an insult, it was contructed directly. I treat this place as a digital home (as we all do) and I don't think people should cuss each other in their home this way.
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 11:50:37 2004

     And as you run do you say, ooooh look at that one, aaahh isn't that one smashing, and wow that one moves.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Mon Oct 11 11:35:18 2004

     Sooooooooooooooooo, on a lighter note, dsp: 10K is that the length of the illuminations? It was certainly longer than the supposed Golden Mile
    Mad Mumsie
    - Mon Oct 11 11:34:31 2004

     Rob, I think you have taken the word "your" in Jimmy's earlier post wrong there. I don't think it was meant to be taken as meaning the work you specifically have done in the field over the last few years... Even the outspoken Jimmy would not be insensitive enough to suggest that everything you have done over the last five years is lacking in value and purpose - this clearly isn't the case, as a respectable academic institution has decreed it worthy of a PhD.
    I think it was meant more as "the field in general, which, within this social grouping, you are the main proponent of" and thus "your", in much the same way one might aim a comment at me and say "your Islay malts", referring to the general style of Islay malts, which I'm most likely, amongst the group, to go on about, but not necessarily referring to the specific bottles which currently sit in my lounge.
    So I suspect it was in fact a deliberately unruly comment intended to spark debate, which it has done, much along the lines of somebody saying "Oi Rob, you're a fat bastard", which is clearly ludicrous, and yet may, given the correct setting, provoke a humourous response.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 11:31:50 2004

     Industry uses Neural Networks to solve problems that other algorithms cannot. Vanillla neural networks are mostly used in nonlinear function approximation (in control systems), high dimensional data visualisation (and sub-manifold conversion) and pattern recognition. MY neual networks (which was the original insult) are used for classifying dynamic systems where only properties of the inputs are known. An example of this is radar pulse deinterleaving - you know what a pulse looks like, you're just not sure what ones you're likely to see. I'd like to tell you if they're being used in 'industry' but I'm not allowed to say either way. There are no other non-NN algorithms that perform this task. The nearest is the Kalman Filter which is a bounded-set state estimator. The existing solution, is static, cumbersome and follows traditional logic practises.

    My other algorithm (still a neural net) dynamically builds Markov Chains from input data. Previously, they have been constructed by hand and have been static. Now, they can be generated automatically and dynamic. The idea of a dynamic Markov chain is old but never before has there been anything else to implement it.

    I'm not going to defend my work here anymore, I read and post comments to relax, share life stories and find out what people are up to. I should not be made to feel that I have to fend off poorly constructed, purile, misinformed and infantile insults about my work. It is not constructive nor palettable.
    Rob Lang
    - Mon Oct 11 11:14:38 2004

     Yes I've noticed this to. The time and commitment I have dedicated to sitting on my arse has reduced my ability to compete in extreme sports, wrestle alligators, climb Everest, etc.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 11:13:34 2004

     Another observation: Every year I do the 10k Blackpool fun run. In the preparation leading up to the event, I train for running. This adversely effects my ability in power activities, sprints and rowing. Your body can only specialise in certain kinds of physical sport. The training regime for long distance running, works against power sports and vice versa.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 11:04:40 2004

     If you were to optimise humans today there would be tons of crap to throw away, and lots of optional extras depending on career and lifestyle choices. Which means you can only optimise for a specific purpose which is exactly why the redundant muscles not used by sitting on your arse behind a desk can become strong for carrying bricks.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 11:01:31 2004

     The more you think about it, the more it appears that most of the human body was designed and implemented on a slow Friday afternoon when the boss was away. Spleens, nasal hair, eyebrows, nipples (on men), toes (do you really need five on each foot?), tonsils, earlobes, gall bladders, the pancreas, adam's apples, the "funny bone", freckles, filtrums, the list goes on...
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 10:54:47 2004

     John, your feeling are perfectly natural and a form of self-exploration we have all done since babyhood (to varying degrees).
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 10:50:25 2004

     A number of developers here write the sort of code you posted below all the time. Should I be downright frightened by this, or somehow reassured given that they are in fact writing code which is "evolution ready"...?
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 10:42:41 2004

     On a slightly similar note, another book I read talks about slackness in organisations (particularly software). It discussed that if every developer is 100% utilised on project work, then long term your department will suffer as no one has time to 'automate that boring task' or 'investigate new stuff' or 'insert new innovation here' etc.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 10:28:36 2004

     I remember the example talked about standard programmers slating GA generated code saying its crap because you get lots of: 
    
if x = y and x <> y then 

   do while n <> n

   loop

end if



if false then

   m = m - 1

   q = 0

end if



print 10

    The point being that the compiler should eliminate these during compilation, but these lumps are what make this algorithm 'good breeding stock'. They are the equivalent of our: appendix, wisdom teeth and coxic.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 10:14:26 2004

     I love that idea of the "redundant lump" Tim. Your DNA is like a messy developer who never tidies his desk. When you rush up to him at 5:30 on a Friday because the company has suddenly got bubonic plague, he calmly says "Oooh, I had a spec for that somewhere", then ruffles about in the unkempt pile of paper, anti-static bags and discarded vending machine cups by the side of his keyboard and after five minutes pulls out ISO 34522-2 and everybody is saved from a rather unpleasant and gruesome death.
    If you were to take a religous view of it, then God was project manager for a team of developers designing human DNA. Friday afternoons they'd stroll back into the office, having had a two-and-a-half hour lunch break round at the Cross Keys, and then implement silly features that weren't requested at all. Several million (or thousands, depending on how hard you want to stick to this religous analogy) years later when the human race was dying in droves from black death or cholera or whatever, there you'd have God up in the control room thanking, err, well himself I suppose, that they didn't all cop it, and there would be those rogueish developers, now probably shareholders in the company, saying "In your face, lord of creation, with your dumbass requirements spec".
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 09:42:38 2004

     You wouldn't use a GA for anything where an exact algorithm which is efficient already exists (i.e. to sort a list), but at the same time there are problems which are practically impossible to solve with anything else but approximate methods (think travelling salesperson, which actually has lots of industrial applications), particularly given that you don't always want to find the optimal solution just one that meets some "sufficiently good" sort of criteria. I'm pretty sure the same sort of statement is true of neural networks as well.
    John
    - Mon Oct 11 09:25:51 2004

     So now we're all HP.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 09:20:07 2004

     You're right about the non-optimal part. I remember reading that its the redundant lump of code that make code able to mutate and adapt into future generations of successful algorithms. If you we're to optimise humans to their environment we would not be able to adapter to minor environmental changes. For my two-cents, NN's are used to implement some kind of function, e.g. we want a certain output given certain input(s); whereas GA's uses are far more diverse. It is also a little known fact that all GA's tend towards NNs.
    dsp
    - Mon Oct 11 09:19:28 2004

     Well, my feeling on genetic algorithms is that they're non-optimal, but have their place. They seem to be less prone to being beaten by simpler techniques than neural networks. That's really my NN gripe- you'd only use them if you were determined to try-out the technique. If you were interested in "Getting the right answer out of your algorithm" then you'd go for something else.
    Jimmy
    - Mon Oct 11 08:25:23 2004

     Ciao everyone, I am actually writing from John`s house :) How are you all? I hope that the next time that I come maybe we can meet up for a little reunion thingy bit... cia ciao!
    Lox
    - Sat Oct 9 23:13:11 2004

     Modest? Sorry, I meant valuable. I suppose Genetic Algorithms are in the same boat, then?
    Rob Lang
    - Sat Oct 9 16:11:30 2004

     Thankyou for your most modest opinion.
    Rob Lang
    - Sat Oct 9 16:04:08 2004

     They're crap because they're stupid. You might call them an "Artificial Stupidity Technology". Their learning power has always been dismal, and it's invariably possible to get better results with other (usually simpler) techniques. You'd only ever use them as a toy ... an "Academic Curio" if you like. Any real-world applications are either: (a) decades away or (b) outperformed by existing stuff. Admittedly (a) isn't a very good point - that's exactly what academia is for (IMHO), but in the meantime they're still crap.
    Jimmy
    - Fri Oct 8 17:57:51 2004

     "Make it stop!"
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 8 16:38:58 2004

     If you want me, I'll be in my trailer.
    John
    - Fri Oct 8 16:33:49 2004

     There goes a tire...
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 8 15:55:04 2004

     Closely followed by... like this, this and this, and he'd be dead!
    dsp
    - Fri Oct 8 15:53:34 2004

     I'll start the quote game with... Its really anoying because someone has used my bread board and cheese grater and left them dirty in the sink. No, no, really.
    dsp
    - Fri Oct 8 15:53:06 2004

     [cliche] CIs are the backbone of the ATC [/cliche]
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 8 15:25:46 2004

     But Robert tomorrow is Saturday. If it was still Wednesday, it would be three days until you see Mad Mumsie and not one.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 8 15:20:23 2004

     But CIs are FAR more important, aren't they Robert.
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 8 15:18:24 2004

     Tom's not an officer - yet. He may be soon.
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 8 15:05:45 2004

     Rob, did you see a request in triplicate, signed by the AOC, for Tom to have a holiday?
    Mad Mumsie
    - Fri Oct 8 15:03:57 2004

     I am on holiday from 1530 today. YAY!
    tom
    - Fri Oct 8 14:24:40 2004

     I prefer the Wednesday feeling, it's got less to live up to.
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 8 14:23:12 2004

     Well, I see that great Friday feeling is alive and well in here today then! Errrr....
    John
    - Fri Oct 8 14:16:10 2004

     I'm not allowed to say.
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 8 14:14:53 2004

     It all seemed a bit theortical at Uni, but you see AI technology everywhere now if you look hard enough.
    tom
    - Fri Oct 8 14:13:12 2004

     Tom, I'd like to argue but he's entitled to his opinion. Saying they're 'crap' without any further comment doesn't give me anything to retort against. I could blather on about financial markets, radar deinterleaving, natural language measurement and so on but he's still entitled to his opinion. What's the point is replying to an empty statement? I'm not miffed as it's not one from a peer. Thanks for you support, though. :-)
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 8 14:03:26 2004

     What can they do Rob? What groovy practical applications can you quote to blow Jimmy out of the water? He says, hoping there are some!! ;-)
    tom
    - Fri Oct 8 14:00:03 2004

     No comment
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 8 13:09:32 2004

     Now you're just narked because I think your networks are crap ...
    Jimmy
    - Fri Oct 8 11:30:55 2004

     Whatever
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 8 11:18:39 2004

     No- scratch that. I simply can't read the time properly because I'm clearly very stupid. No matter. I still think your neural networks are stuck in the past.
    Jimmy
    - Fri Oct 8 10:45:41 2004

     Rob ... you seem to be writing from the future. If this is so, it seems odd that your neural networks are stuck in the past!
    Jimmy
    - Fri Oct 8 10:44:42 2004

     Weirdy Beadry might also have trouble running my neural networks on only a several hundred bytes. For a typical use, one node could take (at the minimum) 14 bytes and there are normally about 50 neurons. That's 700bytes. Now the links between the neurons need at least 5 bytes and there tends to be twice as many links as nodes. That 100 links or 500 bytes. That over a KB. Weirdy Beardy might start sweating at that. Not to mention the rather ropey fp mathematics or the fact that the algorithm has to sit in that memory as well.
    Rob Lang
    - Fri Oct 8 10:12:18 2004

     Number games! A bit fancy for my tastes. I prefer entertainment based around booleans.
    John
    - Fri Oct 8 10:02:43 2004

     Oh no, don't get Jimmy started on 'Text adventures' !
    Kev
    - Fri Oct 8 09:26:50 2004

     Text adventures, ooo ark at you! I prefer number games.
    dsp
    - Fri Oct 8 08:53:31 2004

     Have found one. http://www.rickadams.org/adventure/e_downloads.html
    tom
    - Thu Oct 7 19:18:20 2004

     Does any one have a port of that old "Collossal Adventure"? I never finished it.
    tom
    - Thu Oct 7 18:30:07 2004

     yeah ... game graphics do seem to be a notable exception. However, what *is* becomming apprent is that ever-better graphics do not make ever-better games. Text adventures! That's what ya need!
    Jimmy
    - Thu Oct 7 18:12:43 2004

     Didn't know Beardy Wierdy of 1975 could play games like Battlefield Vietnam.
    Rob Lang
    - Thu Oct 7 15:11:59 2004

     I think Chie has in the region of 50 pairs. That seemed like quite a lot to me, especially when I have to tidy them all up.
    John
    - Thu Oct 7 14:30:25 2004

     2000 pairs of shoes! Who is it that's got more than me then
    Mad Mumsie
    - Thu Oct 7 13:16:45 2004

     BTW John- don't bother buying that small African state. From my experience, I'd say that being a dictator isn't as much fun as you might expect. There's only so much entertainment to be had from 2000 pairs of shoes, and having to sleep in a different place every night is also a problem. Bodyguards everywhere! Stick with Pangers, mate- it's a much easier life.
    Jimmy
    - Thu Oct 7 13:11:39 2004

     The apparent falling prices, and increasing computer capacity don't really add up to much though, do they? If you take your average beardy-weirdy from 1975 with 16KBytes of RAM, he'd probably have got just as much out of his machine as you or I would today, with our multi-mega-flop spangles, and our sparkly peta-discs. Moore's law should mean that computers *do* come in the cornflakes ... but this isn't good for manufacturers. And so they remain large, untidy things which take up half a table (and several power sockets), and make alot of noise, but aren't actually much more functio